Chiliarch
Moderator: pothos moderators
Re: Chiliarch
Actually, Ruth, I don't know - simply because I can't remember which came first - the marriages or the appointment! I suspect that Heph's marriage didn't directly have anything to do with it - after all, a lot of other Macedonians married a lot of high-born PErsian women. But the fact that Heph married Drypetis and therefore became Al's brother in law is definitely all part of the same 'thing'.All the bestMarcus
Re: Chiliarch
I think it is Heckel who says that Alexander never missed an opportunity to honour Hephaestion, and to raise his status in the court - military commands, gold crowns, princesses. There is no indication that these were ever inappropriate, although Alexander plays the personal card with the marriage, presumably to quell any resentment that it is Hephaestion who get the most highly born woman, rather than Craterus, or Perdiccas, or whoever.
Re: Chiliarch
Hi Linda,Of course, judging by how quickly most of the Macedonians ditched their PErsian wives when the opportunity arose, I don't reckon any of them will have been too bothered that Heph got Drypetis...All the bestMarcus
Re: Chiliarch
MarcusCome on, Marcus! The situation was very different after Alexander's death. If Alexander had lived, Hephaestion's sons (had he had any) by Drypetis would have been Alexander's nephews, and Hephaestion would have been part of the Royal Family, of Macedonia, and the Persian Empire. Maybe the generals weren't too keen to marry Persian women, but there must have been some status attached to who you got; the senior generals got the women of the Persian Royal Family. These people took great umbrage over wrongly allocated rooms, after all.
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Sikander
Re: Chiliarch (Long and probably boring)
I have to agree with tre and Linda regarding the importance of the posting. In looking at
Alexander appointing Hephaestion the Chiliarch, or Grand Vizier, we need to explore what
the position meant to Alexander, not what it might mean today. Alexander had access to
more information, in that he was alive during the time when such terms were in use. Just to add some other ideas to the discussion, and if memory serves (and there is a margin for error here):
Alexander would have been familiar with the concept of the tjaty, or advisor to the
Pharoh, like the GÇ£Grand VizierGÇ¥ was to the Persian King. The tjaty (or tjatey) served in an
administrative capacity, not military. Usually they were kinsmen of the king, or members of the
royal families or connected to the royal family in a personal way. His duties were to ensure the
country was running smoothly, monitor that governors were executing their jobs correctly, hear domestic land disputes (as a chief justice, or judge); maintain the census records and supervise
the country to ensure the well-being of the Pharoh and the nation. Tjaty could even be
elevated to be Pharoh, as was Amenemhat I, Ay and others. Sons and daughters of the
Pharoh were often put under the supervision of the tjaty (now seen as the vizier of the
Egyptian court) and his offices, to learn statecraft. Also, the tjaty was considered above even
family, since his loyalty to the Pharoh was personal in a way that those of other administrators and even family- who might usurp a crown - were not.
The hazapat (or hazarpatish) of the Persian Kings were very powerful. Though originally
administration was divided between the hazapat (military administration) and the bitax (civic administration, second to the King), by the time of Darius the office of Hazarpat (Chiliarch)
oversaw civic administration- this was a powerful person to deal with. Bagoas, the
Persian vizier, preceded Darius and was perhaps responsible for placing him on the throne.
Alexander was familiar with the Greek chiliarchia (a unit of 1000 men) and Chiliarch
(Commander of the Royal Guard) and could easily have adapted the title to represent the
power and place of the tjaty or vizer. In fact, in marrying Hephastion into his family, in
appointing him Chiliarch, he was making a very clear statement. This reflected not only on his
personal feelings but on the reliance and confidence he felt in Hephaestion, and the trust he
placed in him to o
Alexander appointing Hephaestion the Chiliarch, or Grand Vizier, we need to explore what
the position meant to Alexander, not what it might mean today. Alexander had access to
more information, in that he was alive during the time when such terms were in use. Just to add some other ideas to the discussion, and if memory serves (and there is a margin for error here):
Alexander would have been familiar with the concept of the tjaty, or advisor to the
Pharoh, like the GÇ£Grand VizierGÇ¥ was to the Persian King. The tjaty (or tjatey) served in an
administrative capacity, not military. Usually they were kinsmen of the king, or members of the
royal families or connected to the royal family in a personal way. His duties were to ensure the
country was running smoothly, monitor that governors were executing their jobs correctly, hear domestic land disputes (as a chief justice, or judge); maintain the census records and supervise
the country to ensure the well-being of the Pharoh and the nation. Tjaty could even be
elevated to be Pharoh, as was Amenemhat I, Ay and others. Sons and daughters of the
Pharoh were often put under the supervision of the tjaty (now seen as the vizier of the
Egyptian court) and his offices, to learn statecraft. Also, the tjaty was considered above even
family, since his loyalty to the Pharoh was personal in a way that those of other administrators and even family- who might usurp a crown - were not.
The hazapat (or hazarpatish) of the Persian Kings were very powerful. Though originally
administration was divided between the hazapat (military administration) and the bitax (civic administration, second to the King), by the time of Darius the office of Hazarpat (Chiliarch)
oversaw civic administration- this was a powerful person to deal with. Bagoas, the
Persian vizier, preceded Darius and was perhaps responsible for placing him on the throne.
Alexander was familiar with the Greek chiliarchia (a unit of 1000 men) and Chiliarch
(Commander of the Royal Guard) and could easily have adapted the title to represent the
power and place of the tjaty or vizer. In fact, in marrying Hephastion into his family, in
appointing him Chiliarch, he was making a very clear statement. This reflected not only on his
personal feelings but on the reliance and confidence he felt in Hephaestion, and the trust he
placed in him to o
Re: Chiliarch
Sorry, Linda, in future I'll write "flippant" just to let you know when I'm being so... All the bestMarcus
Re: Chiliarch
Hi MarcusOK! I did take you seriously. I hate using 
or LOL! or whatever, but I do now as I kept getting into fights online. :)Still - nice response from Sikander. Thanks for that.
or LOL! or whatever, but I do now as I kept getting into fights online. :)Still - nice response from Sikander. Thanks for that.-
Sikander
Oops- the rest of it..
.... In fact, in marrying Hephastion into his family, in appointing him Chiliarch, he was making a
very clear statement. This reflected not only on his personal feelings but on the reliance and confidence he felt in Hephaestion, and the trust he placed in him to oversee the policies
Alexander set into motion, to ensure the governance of the land functioned smoothly,
and to maintain and oversee civic administration according to AlexanderGÇÖs wishes. As Chiliarch, Hephaestion (who had proven his administrative, logistic and diplomatic skills to Alexander as well
as his ability to adapt to new ways and his unfailing loyalty) would have overseen a staff of administrators and would have been a part of the royal family as was the custom for tjaty prior
(many viziers in Egypt were in fact related to or a member of the ruling family).
In order to explore HephaestionGÇÖs position regarding this appointment, we have to look at
the world at the time of Alexander, not with modern eyes. Alexander tended to take ideas and
make them into his own creation. The idea of a vice-king may well have appealed to him
regarding Hephaestion, as the one person he both fully trusted and saw as capable of running
the administrative side of his territories.
Regards,
Sikander
very clear statement. This reflected not only on his personal feelings but on the reliance and confidence he felt in Hephaestion, and the trust he placed in him to oversee the policies
Alexander set into motion, to ensure the governance of the land functioned smoothly,
and to maintain and oversee civic administration according to AlexanderGÇÖs wishes. As Chiliarch, Hephaestion (who had proven his administrative, logistic and diplomatic skills to Alexander as well
as his ability to adapt to new ways and his unfailing loyalty) would have overseen a staff of administrators and would have been a part of the royal family as was the custom for tjaty prior
(many viziers in Egypt were in fact related to or a member of the ruling family).
In order to explore HephaestionGÇÖs position regarding this appointment, we have to look at
the world at the time of Alexander, not with modern eyes. Alexander tended to take ideas and
make them into his own creation. The idea of a vice-king may well have appealed to him
regarding Hephaestion, as the one person he both fully trusted and saw as capable of running
the administrative side of his territories.
Regards,
Sikander