The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipolis

[gepd]

Yes, that is confirmed, they actually say it is not a shield spine but a sarissa in front of the shield. Here is the answer in Corso's words:

I wish to explain why in my opinion the claim by Mrs. Koukouli that the relief with soldier, horse and snake around the tree should be just an ordinary stele is wrong.

1. the height is too high for an ordinary stele;
2. the head of the snake goes close to the head of the soldier, a feature which usually characterizes the snake Ladon which goes close to the head of Herakles;
3. the find spot is so close to the tumulus Kasta to make the not pertinence of the frieze to the tumulus nearly impossible;
4. the quality is very high, that implies high patronage, not at all the ordinary patronage of ordinary stelae;
5. there was a procession of soldiers (see the sarissa above the shield), a feature which does not appear in these stelae).
6. there were other horses and probably knights (see fragment 2 with legs of a horse).
7. there was Hephaestion (see the head from Amphipolis at Paris).
8. the head of the soldier is a portrait and it is the portrait of not such an ordinary person.

I do not have the knowledge to judge any of this, but taking as a fact that the Hephaestion head from Louvre was on the same frieze sounds strange. For the comparison to Alexander he refers to the " dressel - schloss fasanerie type of portrait". Not sure what that is but anyway... Not much more has come out yet, only that the nine leaf rosette was found in multiple locations of the first chamber.

[agesilaos]

Amazing, the Pydna monument shows exactly the same shield, they show it and cannot make the connection Somewhere I read that they were comparing the horse and tree on this sculpture and claiming stylistic affinities with the Alexander mosaic and the hunt frieze on Vergina II, I do not think I need to explain why that is nonsense.

Evidence for Gallic circular shields seems very thin on the ground but the Italiote version is well documented and would arrive about the same time. Thureoi could have come south from Thrace, they appear at Kazanluk with a cut out at the top but may lack the spine.

kazanluk.jpg (5.9 KiB) Viewed 3568 times

Since Alexander clearly wields the xyston with one hand in the Alexander Mosaic it probably did not require two hands to wield, however it may have made control of the horse and bearing a shield mutually exclusive, xystophoroi persist but none are depicted shielded (I think there is a tombstone but will have to find it), other than these nit-picking details I agree with Xenophon, both the helmet type and the shield (which can only be a cavalry one, Macedonian phalanx shields were of a different configuration, deeply dished [contra Asklepiodotos] and universally decorated with semi circular motifs or sunbursts never with the central spine and flat profile here). Sarissa head I'll have what he's drinking.

Corso is right about the quality, however, though, as Xenophon says it is not certainly connected with the pediment of the Lion, yet.

Maybe science has moved on but I am only aware of C14 being able to date when a tree died or part was lopped off, yet they claim to be able to date both the fire and when the tree was grown Is there a new technique or are we talking supposition (the tree was burned as soon as it was cut) and guesswork (it was then 30 years old)?

[gepd]

Amazing, the Pydna monument shows exactly the same shield, they show it and cannot make the connection

To be fair, its me who put the comparison with the Pydna monument - that was not something from the presentation, when I put this up I didn't know they were describing the feature of the shield as a sarissa.

[Zebedee]

Gepd to the rescue again. Oh my.

The logical interpretation of this is a very cramped relief dating from second half of 3rd century, and possibly even Roman period, which depicts a very standard scene. The big mound is not the only nice tomb at Amphipolis. The head of the snake pointing to the left may suggest there is a mirror relief to be found in which the hero is facing to the right in making a libation.

If it is related to the mound and is dated to the major construction work at the mound, then one has to explain the multiple horses. I don't think it works to have another horse inside a depiction of a phalanx as Corso also seems to want... If Sveshtari borrows from here, then could it be another servant leading another horse but carrying the weapons rather than a shield? How many horses do we have? Two? Four? That may have some bearing on who is interred, or at least which cult this is, because that is interestingly different.

I can't comment on the Alexander face thing in comparison to images held in German museums, but interpreting the snake as Ladon is fine providing you've got Heracles next to it. Or Alexander as Heracles. Or some sort of symbolism in the tree (apples?) or anything related to that myth (Hesperides?). And there's nothing I can see. It's an idea which seems to work backwards from 'Hephaestion was buried here therefore...'. One doesn't need to link the Ladon myth if that is Alexander as groom. I don't think it will be Alexander but that's mainly because it seems odd to suggest that someone with sufficient respect to make Hephaestion a hero has Alexander playing the servant role. That seems very close to satire.

[agesilaos]

To be fair, Gepd, the fact that you saw the link and they failed to (assuming they are familiar with the Pydna monument!) only makes it worse; these archaeologists should have frizzy wigs and big red noses, and just like clowns they are not funny What is funny is that they chose to suppress this frieze I get the distinct feeling that someone is 'taking their ease and telling me it is raining!' To paraphrase a well known saying

Note I am not impugning your good sense or ability, merely questioning why the Kasta team are not up to your standard!

[Zebedee]

John Ma (professor of interesting things at Corpus Christi, Oxford) is suggesting on social media the helmet may be rarely attested, may not be Macedonian and may date to the 2nd century BC. He points to the east frieze of the Pergamon altar as having a similar example.



edited to reflect possibility rather than assertion of fact.

[agesilaos]

The helmet is slightly different but he is certainly right that the type is not attested as early as the late fourth century but the earliest archaeological example is c. 280 though quite why I cannot say as the info is from an auction catalogue rather than a paper A cavalry shield is more diagnostic IMHO as we can certainly rule out the early Diadoch era; read Diodoros' account of Eumenes and Neoptolemos grappling, there were no shields involved there, similarly the carving at Telmessos believed to be a monument to Alketas has no shield.

[Zebedee]

Absolutely. We're looking at second half of the third century for the shield at earliest? I seem to recall Hatzopoulos listing a couple of examples of this type pre-Pydna monument from then, although I've not been able to locate quite where just yet. I don't mind the Thracian argument at all (my confirmation bias ), but I'm not buying this as the first example pre-dating every other by half a century. A decade or two, ok at a push. But then that doesn't make for Alexander funding to continue the dig... Corso's interpretation is interesting to say the least. Really glad to have confirmation from Gepd and elsewhere it's equally evident to others. Reassures me I'm not going totally bonkers.

On dating wood - it is possible to date when depending on which wood and having something with sufficient growth rings. But I'd like to see the evidence that's what has happened!

[agesilaos]

I understand dendro-chronology but they cite C14 which means destruction of the sample, and a much smaller piece than viable for tree-ring analysis, we must still consider that the frieze may be later from a different building; this does not stop the archaeologists' pronouncement being better for the roses than sensible discussion, however; hopefully they will come to their senses soon, agreeing with Xenophon cannot be good for me

Seriously, we need to find the earliest evidence for that hybrid helmet, attic-boeotian or brimmed konos, and the spined cavalry shield; and from the original with its dating evidence, standing assumptions wont wash (and I myself own to adopting them, I was unaware of the poverty of evidence for circular spined gallc shields until I looked into it (it remains a logical deduction, but the actual evidence is wanting). The sensible camp has to conform to higher standards than the others have displayed which includes admitting the possibility that things are not certain.

[Zebedee]

Ah, I thought you were alluding to the problem of dendrochronology full stop for this period. Cornell has been running a project which now is just about able to cover it, kind of. Just how I understood the newspaper summary, although I'd be curious as to how something suitable survived a pyre...

Finally found the shields I was looking for in Hatzopoulos. They're in L'organisation de l'armée macédonienne sous les Antigonides (plates III a and b). The example Corso used in his presentation is actually from Amphipolis, and there's one from Kalindoia

IIIa


IIIb

Le premier (pi. Illa), datant de la fin du Ille ou du début du Ile siècle - et non pas de la période romaine- représente, à gauche, le cavalier nu-tête, mais portant cuirasse, chlamyde et bottes, débout devant un autel en train d'effectuer une libation ; derrière lui se tient son ecuyer casqué et portant un grand bouclier rond, plat, sans rebords et pourvu d'une arête qui le traverse diamétralement et parallèlement au sol gagnant de l'épaisseur à l'approche du centre...

Le grand bouclier à l'arête diamétrale se retrouve sur une stèle funéraire de Kalindoia, que nous avions peut-être à tort attribué à l'époque républicaine (pi. Illb). Elle représente un cavalier au gallop, encore une fois vers la gauche, comme sur la ciste du Musée de Kilkis, avançant vers un autel surmonté d'un arbre autour du quel est enroulé un serpent. L'érosion et une épaisse couche de chaux ne permettent pas de distinguer le détail de son armemement en dehors du large bouclier rond et plat et à arête diamétrale, exactement comme sur le relief d'Amphipolis. Derrière la croupe du cheval un écuyer à pied suit le cavalier.

p.53/4, Hatzopoulos, L'organisation de l'armée macédonienne sous les Antigonides, Athens, 2001

So, as of a decade ago, Hatzopoulos was saying this shield is late 3rd or early 2nd but most certainly Antigonid.

[gepd]

These are all very interesting, thanks for sharing.

As for the Pydna monument and other things, we usually find all these with the friend of mine that we keep our Amphipolis brainstorming notes in our website - I should not take credit for everything.

We also have this, but unfortunately lost the source. Any idea where this may come from?

[system1988]

Is this a marble sculpture...seems argillaprobably not from a Greek museum....maybe italy

[Xenophon]

Agesilaos wrote:

Since Alexander clearly wields the xyston with one hand in the Alexander Mosaic it probably did not require two hands to wield,

Since we are nit-picking, I did not say a xyston could not be used single-handed, but in order to do so it must be held under-arm in either a tight, or loose ( as in the mosaic) 'couch' - useful only to charge forwards. To use the weapon generally, thrusting and cutting to right, left or even to the rear requires two hands - see later usage of this weapon called by its later nick-name of 'kontos'/barge-pole.

Gepd wrote:

Hi Xenophon, is there a reference for that? Not sure where to read about it. The only thing that commonly comes up is that Celtic shields were oval shaped, so is the circular type a Macedonian adjustment?We also have this, but unfortunately lost the source.....and..... Any idea where this may come from?

and System1988 wrote:

Is this a marble sculpture...seems argillaprobably not from a Greek museum....maybe italy

For reference works see "Armies and Enemies of the Macedonian and Punic Wars" by Duncan Head; WRG publications 1982 pp116-117 and for iconographic examples from Northern Italy "Hannibal and the Enemies of Rome" Peter Connolly MacDoanald Educational 1978, reproduced below for convenience......

System1988's deduction that the sculpture is likely from Northern Italy is a good one, judging by the very similar example below of a Celtic horseman with spined circular shield riding down a Greek opponent

[Xenophon]

Agesilaos wrote:

Seriously, we need to find the earliest evidence for that hybrid helmet, attic-boeotian or brimmed konos,

The famous 'Pyrrhus bust' depicts the Epirot King wearing a similar 'konos' helmet with a rim [see below], though in this instance it has only a little of the 'crimping' of the rim that is a characteristic of 'Boeotian' helmets...... which gives a relatively firm date of the first quarter of the 3 C BC..... ( 'Boeotian' rim shown on the auction catalogue photo Agesilaos posted, and also the Ashmolean museum example ).

[gepd]

Thanks a lot Xenophon for the references - these are all very interesting.

Regarding the sculptures presented by Corso et al., they were found 120 m away from Kastas peribolos - there is another broken piece found nearby showing a leg of a horse, I assume they attribute it to the same monument. We still have to see the evidence that all this formed part of the base, but note that at about the same distance from the entrance of the tomb there is the so-called "Macedonian tomb 3" that has the identical mosaic pattern (rombus etc.) as Kastas, dated from the finds to the late 4th century BC or early 3rd century BC, for me imitating Kastas.





That area of that tomb has not been excavated much to my knowledge as the hellenistic necropolis of Amphipolis is souther, closer to the city.But excluding Kastas, I think this "Macedonian tomb 3" is a rather luxurious one and one of the few Macedonian tombs found to have a mosaic decoration (the other is at Delos). Near that tomb they found a few meter high anthemion, probably belonging to that tomb's funerary stele. the quality of that looks very high, probably those who know better can judge that



So, I assume the region may have attracted high class burials and excavations there may prove of equal importance as on the tumulus. The sculptures presented there may have come from similar burials yet to be discovered. If they did come from the base of Kastas, then excavators have to explain how 4th century BC (latest early century BC) mosaics at Kastas conform with a base decoration of at least half century later and a lion of 4th century BC. From what I read, the discussion about the dating of the lion is whether is is classical or early Hellenistic, never found a proposed date after 4th century BC.