The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipolis

[Taphoi]

Which manuscript of Cleitarchus would that be?

The mauscripts of the ancient writers who used Cleitarchus as a source: Diodorus, Curtius, Plutarch, Justin/Trogus...
Best wishes,
Andrew

[gepd]

Maybe some evidence about whether the tomb belongs to a man or woman, this is a blog post by the architect of the excavation from 2013:

400 blocks from around the Lion, belong to the peribolos (perimeter 500m) of the tomb. The blocks were orthostates, stepsis blocks and geisons for a very long circular wall and exactly the same blocks were found in situ at the peribolos. More than 30 from the rest 100 blocks around the Lion, belong to the basement of the statue, containing blocks with semicolumns semicapitals and...shields. This is the biggest macedonian tumulus ever found and the Lion (not Lionaise) is surely on the top of the tumulus, because all the 430 blocks of the perivolos and the statue basement have the same type and marble elaboration, the same architectural aspects and an entire system of geometrical analogies and an exceptional modulus (the height of the Statue). This same modulus is used also for the construction of the peribolos architecture and the main geometrical form of the tumulus in full analogy with the Lion and its basement. There are no clues about Roxane, the Lion and the marble Shields indicate a Man, propably a heroic warrior(s) of great importance. We cant surely talk about Roxane and Alexander D, as everybody talks so easily at the media all this time. Michaelis Lefantzis,The architect of the excavation

Interesting, because I did not know about the shields.

Source: http://www.makedonia-alexandros.blogspo ... on-of.html

[Taphoi]

Maybe some evidence about whether the tomb belongs to a man or woman, this is a blog post by the architect of the excavation from 2013:

400 blocks from around the Lion, belong to the peribolos (perimeter 500m) of the tomb. The blocks were orthostates, stepsis blocks and geisons for a very long circular wall and exactly the same blocks were found in situ at the peribolos. More than 30 from the rest 100 blocks around the Lion, belong to the basement of the statue, containing blocks with semicolumns semicapitals and...shields. This is the biggest macedonian tumulus ever found and the Lion (not Lionaise) is surely on the top of the tumulus, because all the 430 blocks of the perivolos and the statue basement have the same type and marble elaboration, the same architectural aspects and an entire system of geometrical analogies and an exceptional modulus (the height of the Statue). This same modulus is used also for the construction of the peribolos architecture and the main geometrical form of the tumulus in full analogy with the Lion and its basement. There are no clues about Roxane, the Lion and the marble Shields indicate a Man, propably a heroic warrior(s) of great importance. We cant surely talk about Roxane and Alexander D, as everybody talks so easily at the media all this time. Michaelis Lefantzis,The architect of the excavation

Interesting, because I did not know about the shields.

Yes, there are shields either side of the doorway of the Lion Monument in the reconstructions already posted on this thread - repeated below.

This is evidence, but weak in the matter of the occupant being a man. Athena was commonly depicted with a shield. Amazons had shields. If the woman had led armies, as Olympias had, then shields would not have been incongruous. As for the lion, some say it might have been female, despite its mane. I do not agree with them. However, I note that Philip had famously dreamt that he had sealed Olympias's womb with a lion device whilst she was pregnant with Alexander, so it was the symbol of Olympias's motherhood of Alexander. So it would have been more appropriate over her tomb than that of many men.

Best wishes,
Andrew

LionTombAmphipolis.jpg (79.31 KiB) Viewed 6373 times

[Efstathios]

No one would have spend a fortune building one of the biggest tombs in history for Olympias, while the tomb of Phillip is 10 times smaller, and Cassander's tomb that may have been found in Vergina is also 10 times smaller. Enough said.

[Paralus]

When the “wish is father to the thought”, diminish and deride is most often the weapon of choice. A classic case follows…

The paper in Hesperia by Edson offers zero evidence that Olympias is buried at Pydna […] All the red text is invented by Edson!

This is no defence against filling an unbounded gap in an inscription with a specific meaning that relies on a direct connection between the fragments either side. The proper term for that procedure is "guesswork".

I have been very clear why it is guesswork in this particular instance: the gap that is being filled is of unknown and indeterminate length, because we do not know how big the block was from which the fragment survives. Such a gap cannot be filled without guessing.

. It follows as a matter of pure logic that many alternative reconstructions are possible in this instance (indeed three are presented in the paper). If Edson has plucked one from a large set of viable alternative reconstructions, then he is necessarily guessing. In fact he appears to have informed his reconstruction with a pre-existing belief that the tomb of Olympias lay at Pydna, but it is of course circuitous to use the thing you are trying to prove as an assumption in the argument that you use to prove it.

Presented with counter evidence to the cherished wish that Olympias be the occupant of the Amphipolis dig, the proponent of that evidence stands accused of the intellectually bereft methods of guessing and invention. Not by a trained epigraphist but rather an amateur historian. In the final quote that accuser has now deployed the charge of circular argument though any reading of the paper shows this not to be the case; the argument for the proposed restoration resting on epigraphic argument. Circularity is ever present in the supposed reconstruction of any lost source – Cleitarchus included. To paraphrase Africa, that a fragment of Ephorus is to be so identified by alleged congruity with Diodorus does not mean it cannot just as well be a fragment of Diodorus.

In order to establish a unique reconstruction, it is necessary to determine as a first step the exact length of the gap between one line fragment and the next and to show why it can only have that size. There is nothing to delimit that gap in this instance. It could be 10 characters or 100 characters.

And this is a constant refrain. I can only echo the thoughts of Agesilaos:

The fragment is clearly in elegiac couplets, a form as restrictive as a limerick, it is not part of a Joycean stream of consciousness rendering your objections void. That you continue to fail to se this speaks more to that supposed 'honesty' of yours than any lack of clarity in explanation;

Finally, I too agree with Stathi:

No one would have spend a fortune building one of the biggest tombs in history for Olympias, while the tomb of Phillip is 10 times smaller, and Cassander's tomb that may have been found in Vergina is also 10 times smaller. Enough said.

A much more succinct version of my more varied arguments!

[agesilaos]

I am somewhat surprised that we have not heard much about the stratified layers which for the mound; all the reports note the presence of mollusc shells which are carbon dateable yet there are no reports of any findings. There might be a problem of ‘old shells’, where molluscs which died long before are in the deposits, though selection ought to ameliorate the skewing. Such analysis would not constitute concrete proof, but if the topmost layer and the bottom most date to the same era it would be a good indication that the mound was constructed at one time; with the strata reflecting an engineering solution to ‘mound slump’. Contrariwise, a marked difference between the extreme layers would suggest an accumulation over time, the situation of the Lion Monument does not demonstrate anything, since the base was buried in the mound, it is only considered contemporary on stylistic grounds, in which case the retaining wall is contemporary with the 2nd Century BC house which copies its blockwork! All it need show is that the monument was built after the retaining wall and the style copied, of course. Analysis of the molluscs would clear these things up, have core samples been taken? I have not read about it; what has been said is that to relieve pressure on the third chamber the mound was being cleared destroying this evidence (or is it just that part directly above the chambers?). If the work has been done and the team are sitting on it then it is little wonder they dismiss Palagaia’s Republican Roman theory, but why not release the clear evidence?

[gepd]

http://www.yppo.gr/2/g22.jsp?obj_id=58792

Mosaic!

[Alexias]

Hades abducting Persphone as in the Aegai wall painting?

[Paralus]

Hades abducting Persphone as in the Aegai wall painting?

The fellow in front of the horses in the winged sandals is Hermes. He may be carting the departed off to the afterlife as he transcends such boundaries.

[system1988]

Nearchus was bearded ! just kidding,we have to wait a full cleaning of the mosaic ( Is the man crowned with a golden wreath?)

[Efstathios]

http://en.protothema.gr/amphipolis-exqu ... ee-photos/ in english.

Now the question is, is this the man that is buried in the tomb or is it someone from mythology? And if it is Nearchus or Laomedon, wouldn't there be boats or something that has to do with the sea depicted somewhere? The drawing is very interesting though, both the depictions of Hermes and the bearded man are very nice, and the horses too of course.

[Efstathios]

And the internet is "on fire". What is this???

http://www.phdiva.blogspot.gr/2014/10/a ... orses.html

And also the mosaic could be of the taking of Persephone, since at the first chambers - hallway the decoration has a more general character.
Also, if it's not Persephone there could be someone else in the chariot next to the man, in the space that hasn't been uncovered yet.

I highly emphasize the link that i posted though, it opens up new possibilities and theories.

[agesilaos]

If the Greek commentary is right in identifying Hermes as Psychopompos 'Guider of Souls' then the charioteer has to be the departed, boy was Olympias a minger! But is it significant that he is in profile so only one eye is showing? The artist could certainly have dealt with a three-quarter view, if the next room has a clean shaven man with a τειχ-ήρης στέφανος, or mural crown ....

[agesilaos]

Dorothy's post is intriguing, and probably in breach of Fight Club rules but she has been significantly (?) quiet for the passed three days or so, maybe there will be a release of information soon; certainly quality artwork and there is the promise of more; I just hope the soil analysis she speaks of is not confined to the fill. Art is very pretty but the soil should yeild more info, however boring it is to look at!

[Efstathios]

Yes it has been hypothesized that it's Philip II, hence not showing the eye that is missing. It's a theory but i also think it just might be the style the artist chose. I am waiting for more for "Alexander's horses" and finds that haven't been announced story.