Chess piece designs - constructive criticism required!

[maggot]

Hello everyone,
I'm currently in the process of designing a chess set and board based on Alexander's Great March East. For those familiar with the chess pieces, the King is of course is Alexander, based loosely on a statue in the Istanbul museum. The Queen is Olympias, A's mother. The Bishop; Aristotle, his tutor. The Knight; Bucephalus, based on the bronze excavated at Herculaneum and the Rook is the Pharos Lighthouse; based on the model in the Musee Maritime, Alexandria.
How does that sit with you learned folk here at Pothos?
The pawns are giving me a little trouble. I've ruled out using infantrymen as the set is of a "classical" nature, therefore I'm steering away from the "toy-soldier" look. The two options I'm considering at the moment are 1. depicting them in the style of the Macedonian infantrymens helmet of the Phrygian or Thracian type - 4th century B.C. (the one with the pommel top!) or 2. in the form of clay tablets like those found in Persepolis, displayed in the Yale Babylonian Collection, New Haven. Although these date from 507 B.C. - a little before A's time, and are written in Elamite of the Achaemenid Persian Empire, which may be stretching the artistic license a wee bit too far!
What are your thoughts on my ideas so far? Am I barking up the right tree??
Your opinions would be very much appreciated.

Alan

[marcus]

Hi Maggot (odd name to choose, oh well! )

Your project sounds really interesting, and I like your ideas for the 'back row' of the set.

What are you using for your model of Olympias?

I like the idea of using Phrygian style helmets for the pawns, especially as you don't want a 'toy soldier' look.

Question: are you doing both players' sets the same, or is the other side going to have Persian pieces - Darius, etc.?

ATB

[maggot]

Hi Marcus,
Many thanks for the reply! Like you, I'm swinging towards the Phyrigian helmets as pawns. They're almost pawn like in appearance for starters and are symbollic of the infantrymen (cannon-fodder!) which the pawns represent.

Olympias, as I'm sure you are aware, was a toughie. I could find only one likeness of her, which luckily enough was a wonderfully detailed relief on a gold medallion from the Archaeological Museum in Salonika. After studying that image and those of Alexanders it's not hard to see what side of the family he took after in the looks department!
As for the rest of Olympias I had to use a little artistic license and after much research settled on the body, attire and pose of a statue of Themis, dated from around the same period and area (http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/god4/hob_03.12.17.htm - if you'd like a peek). To these two images I've added a few touches of my own, namely restoring the missing right arm which now clutches a staff entwined with a serpent, and in her left hand concealed within her robe she's hiding a dagger (just the hilt is visible), signifying her implication in the murder of Philip II and the evil/manipulative side of her character. A Queen not to be trifled with in this chess set!

I am working on the opposing pieces, as you mentioned King Darius III, but so far am stuck for a Bishop and Knight. The War-Elephant would be a good candidate for the Bishop as that is what that piece was originally, the Persian/Muslim translation of Elephant being "al fin" which over the centuries got interprated as "aufin" in Europe (a thief or spy) and took the more familiar form of the present day Bishop around the mid 11th century - obviously priests had a little bit of a sour reputation around this time! Incidently, without this turning into a lecture(!) the cleft representing the Bishops hat derives from the two tusks of the elephant which again over the years were brought closer and closer together by craftsmen to form the piece we're all familiar with today.
Anyhow, yes, in the pipeline but the Persians I'm finding tougher to assemble than the popular and for the most part well documented life of Alexander.

P.S. If you know of any sites that have good images of the Phrygian helmet please let me know.

Cheers,

Alan

[marcus]

Sounds good! Is this just for your benefit, or for a commecially available chess set?

Anyway - got to be quick for now, but try these for Phrygian helmets:

http://create.nuevaschool.org/~four/gre ... xander.jpg

http://www.niximperial.biz/AH6112.jpg

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/war/Armor ... Helmet.jpg

They ought to give you a good idea of the shape.

ATB

[maggot]

MANY THANKS! Just what I was after - had the shape, but not the mechanics.
Here's a mad one I also dug up (not literally...but I wish!) a while back.
http://www.legionsix.org/wingedffront.jpg
Supurb piece, but a tad too OTT.

The board and sets were supposed to be on sale this spring...but I've been enjoying my research too much! They should be worth the wait though.

Thanks again,

Alan

[marcus]

Here's a mad one I also dug up (not literally...but I wish!) a while back.
http://www.legionsix.org/wingedffront.jpg
Supurb piece, but a tad too OTT.

Yeah, a bit OTT. I don't know how authentic it is, but it's certainly too ornate for the ordinary phalangite.

I'm not a chess player, but I would like a nice chess set - that ought to do nicely, once it's all done and available. Do keep us posted - and if you have any pics of the pieces ...

ATB

[beausefaless]

Deleted

[maggot]

Thank you for the link, beausefaless. Exactly the simple type of design I'm seeking, but am still swinging toward the Phrygian style, which is slightly better suited, design-wise, for a chess pawn (the shape of which is easier to handle).

Keep 'em coming though!

All the best,

Alan

[agesilaos]

For the Persians how about
rooks - rock of Aornos
knights- winged bulls
bishops- Immortals
Queen - Roxane
KIng- Darius III
Pawns - Turbans with top knot or floppy tiarai

[maggot]

Some interesting suggestions. I pondered the idea of using the Rock of Aornos for the Persian Rook but had trouble designing something that fit into a 2 inch square! Instead I settled on The Ishtar Gates, using the towers either side of the gate as my model, complete with the decorative Bull & Dragon reliefs. Also they have the bonus of being relatively the same shape as the base of the Pharos lighthouse which inspired A's Rooks.

I also like the idea of the Immortals as the Bishop. Now are these the same as the Persian Guard? In "The Search for Alexander" by Robin Lane-Fox (pages 226 & 228 if you have the book handy) there are two photographs of the guard. I like the look of the shield- bearing unit on p. 226 but their fluted hats are a problem for me as I haven't seen them in 3-D anywhere and I'm a stickler for detail, and if I use them would want to get them correct. If you know of anywhere I could find this reference material, it'd be much appreciated.

And while I'm on the subject of bonnets - here's a query for Marcus if you're out there - I made a prototype of the Phrygian helmet as a pawn yesterday evening and love the look of it, but really want to add a plume to the top of the helmet. Would this be out of keeping or did the commander of units such as these have plumes anyway? Hope you can be of help.

All the best,

Alan

[marcus]

And while I'm on the subject of bonnets - here's a query for Marcus if you're out there - I made a prototype of the Phrygian helmet as a pawn yesterday evening and love the look of it, but really want to add a plume to the top of the helmet. Would this be out of keeping or did the commander of units such as these have plumes anyway? Hope you can be of help.

Hi Alan,

Not a plume on top, although the officers had plumes (more like feathers) sticking up from each side (a bit like horns, I suppose). I don't have a picture to hand, but will try to find one - if you have access to "The Armies of Alexander the Great" by Nick Secunda, in the Osprey Men-at-Arms series, one of the colour plates will show you what it looked like.

ATB

[agesilaos]

Plumes are acceptable too, they are depicted in the Tomb of Iason and Kalikles and on the Amazon Sarcophagos, with feathers I think. As for the fluted hats how about the twisted fillet depicted on the Susa wall tiles?

[maggot]

Here's a nice set produced by one of my competitors - Elizabeth Gann, very high end, which is reflected in the price - around $8,000 US.
http://www.elizabethgann.com/oleg2004.html

How does eveyone rate the design of this set for historical accuracy, eye appeal, etc.?
Would you be comfortable with Aristotle as the Queen!??

Bear in mind that this set is probably for display purposes only. I ruled out incorperating sarissas into my design as I want the pieces to be functional, therefore this design is a little too "prickly" for my taste, but would like to hear the opinions of ye learned Alexandrians on site.

All the best,

Alan

[marcus]

How does eveyone rate the design of this set for historical accuracy, eye appeal, etc.?
Would you be comfortable with Aristotle as the Queen!??

The pieces look quite nice. I have to admit, though, that having Aristotle as the 'queen' doesn't sit very well with me. There's no reason why the piece has to be 'female', I know; but it's still the queen!

I wouldn't have sarissas - too easily broken, for a start. Also, they would make it more difficult to pick up the pieces.

ATB