Did Alexander consider himself Helen? Part I

[jan]

Wow, this is interesting, I should like to ask a few questions. One, what kind of language is discovered at the tomb of Vergina? Other than the artifacts, has any evidence of language been found there? Thanks.

[rjones2818]

Hmmmm...I'm glad that this hasn't been deleted, because I think it deserves to be talked about, and the questions and answers I've read have been fair and straight forward!Rex

[Efstathios]

There were over 75 greek names found in inscriptions in the tombs written with greek characters

[jim]

Demonsthanes also referred to other Greeks such the Aetolians as Barbarians when they opposed Athenian interests.Keep in mind that Demostanes himself was referred to as barbarian because his Mother was Sythian. ATG beleived he was decendent from Achilles on his Mother's side Heracles on his Fathers side thus he considered himself Greek. Also Herodutus associated Makedon with te Dorians decendent from Helen it was the ATHENIANS who he claims were Helenized Pelasgians. Alexander was both a Macedonianian and a Greek the way Leonides was both Spartan and Greek.In both leaders there nationality and Greek were interwoven.Greek was a cultural lingusistic / genetic term not a nationality.The modern concept of a nation state did not exist at that time.

[bob]

As a Jew, I can care less about modern political debates. I would not want to discuss the Israeli Palestinian debate, any more than any modern political mess. I am just saying that I see something different in the sources and I am trying to figure out the historical alexander and not apply it to modern times. I can care less about modern politics, and it is not my intention to debate that issue here.

[bob]

Since I am buying ancient coins, I will have that knowledge soon. However, what ancient source do you have to prove that the Makedonisin word and plutarchs statements are not false? (i.e. that the language of the Macedonians was a different dialect and not a different language.) Even if it is a dialect, how come the Athenians, Thebans, and Spartans for example do not have a different dialect (or language)?

[bob]

Plutarch also used Aristobulus.

[bob]

Wow, well, I agree with you in large part, but why would Arian then discuss "racial rivalry" between greeks and macedonias:
Arrian speaks of ethnic and racial rivalry between Macedonians and Greeks: [Book II - Battle of Issus] "Darius' Greeks fought to thrust the Macedonians back into the water and save the day for their left wing, already in retreat, while the Macedonians, in their turn, with Alexander's triumph plain before their eyes, were determined to equal his success and not forfeit the proud title of invincible, hitherto universally bestowed upon them. The fight was further embittered by the old racial rivalry of Greek and Macedonian." [p.119] Arrian Ancient Greek Historian The Campaigns of Alexander

[bob]

Can you give your source for that info? I understand to many this issue touches on the forbidden subject, but for me, as one who also doesn't want to discuss the forbidden subject, I want to understand who Alexander was, what he thought about himself. Personally, whether he was Makedonian or Greek is a basic and fundamental question to understand Alexander for me and is a historical question of alexander. Thus, if this topic is offensive, I apologize, but I can't ignore some "difficult" quotes when I am reading Plutarch, Arian, etc. and who else do I have to ask? My questions do not come from internet news clippings but from ancient sources, thus I am looking for historical info on Alexander. Alexander experts do not live down the street from me. I live in America, and like Alexander, and want to avoid any modern political discussion. This is why I asked my questions quoting the ancient sources. So far, while some replies have been interesting, not many have discussed the sources and the quotes I put up. One discussed the phrase Makedonisin, and that helped. One mentioned different months names, but no one is footnoting anything, and thus, I can't figure out the difference between fact and opinion. If people want to email me privately that is fine, so others are not offended. Pleave give sources that I can find to verify so I can get facts, not opinions. Thanks
Bob

[jan]

While I do not think it behooves anyone to do battle over the Greek/Macedonian origins, there is no doubt that Macedonia was separate from Greece then and that Philip's and Alexander's rule was in Macedonia. Note that Alexander is a Prince and that Philip is a King, and that in Greece, a democratic type gov't is in rule in that region. Nobody can dispute those facts, can they? Darius is also a king as is Alexander in all of Egypt and Asia.