Echo ?

[kennyxx]

Hi Porthonians.All those Uk Porthonians. Maybe Marcus. I wonder if you watched the series on BBC 1 about Rome. It was a serialisation about the Rise and ultimate death of Juleus Caesar.I thought it pretty darned good. I cant vouch for the accuracy of the story. But it did demonstarate. Senate Power or Corperate rule over the Kingships and One man rule.I really thought it had a great deal to do with Alexander and the ends they both met. It demonstarated Caesar trying for absolute rule and kingship. He was really trying to become an Alexander. He was making massive constitutional changes and gradually trying to fade out or replace the senate with his own people.Ultimately the old guard of senate were having none of it nor sharing the power they had. So even as powerful as Caesar thought he was. He wasnt as powerful or as scheming as the mob who killed him.Only the Roans to be fair publicly assasinated him to basically make the point that they were the rulers and no kings here thankyou.I know we debate wether Alexander was killed. But indeed we can indeed see the similarities. The senate or mob of Macedonia was the old guard and generals. Unwilling to accept the reforms and alterations that Alexander was bringing.The only difference in my opinion was none had the balls to take him head on and try to kill him with sword or dagger. Indeed Alexander unlike Caesar was a king. but the backroom boys wouldnt allow him to take way there power or what they had.Did you see the programe Marcus and can you see my analogy.kenny

[marcus]

I have been hooked by "Rome" - I thought it was excellent. OK, the history was a bit (or sometimes very) dodgy in places, but we must remember that it was a *drama*, not a history programme; and the basic elements were correct. I thought it was a really nice touch to suggest that the impetus for Caesar's murder was Servilia - it allowed them to make the women much more central to the story than they would have been ... and, to some extent, how do we know that some of these things *aren't* historical - if they ain't attested, then one speculation is as good as another.Visually, the series was stunning - the best recreation of Republican Rome I have seen. It was nice, also, to focus as much on the Subura (the area where all the non-wealthy citizens lives) as on the Forum and the Senate. And the acting was brilliant - James Purfoy as Mark Antony was matchless.All in all it was superb. I'd be a bit wary of using that series to make too many comparisons with Alexander, because there was so much that was speculation, or made up for the sake of a good story; and there was so much also that was left out.However, that's not to say that there aren't many comparisons that *Can* be made between the two - and Plutarch did, after all, put them together as parallel lives, so some of those things were acknowledged even in the 2nd Century AD (and almost certainly earlier, too).ATBMarcus

[marcus]

I have been hooked by "Rome" - I thought it was excellent. OK, the history was a bit (or sometimes very) dodgy in places, but we must remember that it was a *drama*, not a history programme; and the basic elements were correct. I thought it was a really nice touch to suggest that the impetus for Caesar's murder was Servilia - it allowed them to make the women much more central to the story than they would have been ... and, to some extent, how do we know that some of these things *aren't* historical - if they ain't attested, then one speculation is as good as another.Visually, the series was stunning - the best recreation of Republican Rome I have seen. It was nice, also, to focus as much on the Subura (the area where all the non-wealthy citizens lives) as on the Forum and the Senate. And the acting was brilliant - James Purfoy as Mark Antony was matchless.All in all it was superb. I'd be a bit wary of using that series to make too many comparisons with Alexander, because there was so much that was speculation, or made up for the sake of a good story; and there was so much also that was left out.However, that's not to say that there aren't many comparisons that *Can* be made between the two - and Plutarch did, after all, put them together as parallel lives, so some of those things were acknowledged even in the 2nd Century AD (and almost certainly earlier, too).ATBMarcus

[kennyxx]

Marcus I agreeIt shows that a quality programe or movie can be made without trying to be too clever.The characters and actors nailed the people. Indeed Marc Anthony was brilliant not the bafoon. Led like a bull with a ring through his nose as in the Cleopatra movies. Its rather often said that Clepatra had Anthgony and Caesar under the thumb. I think not.I thought the two characters the Roman Centurian and his mate were great and the Gladiator Scene in the last episode very brutal. It also showed the pride that Romans must have had in there own units.I got a little confused withg the Woman who conspired the murder of Caesar all going back to Caesar going back to his wife for political reasons.And your spot on with the everyday lives and how the Romans outside politics must have behaved. I think fundamentally Caesar wanted to be a king. And that finished him.I guess the series could continue. Especially following the womans threats to punish and chase Caesars Lady friend.We know from History Octavian- Augustus proved a worthy succesor and probably more politically astute than Caesar. Im sure Augustus would put the crazy woman out to pasture.Kenny.Sorry I am awful with the names.

[kennyxx]

Marcus I agreeIt shows that a quality programe or movie can be made without trying to be too clever.The characters and actors nailed the people. Indeed Marc Anthony was brilliant not the bafoon. Led like a bull with a ring through his nose as in the Cleopatra movies. Its rather often said that Clepatra had Anthgony and Caesar under the thumb. I think not.I thought the two characters the Roman Centurian and his mate were great and the Gladiator Scene in the last episode very brutal. It also showed the pride that Romans must have had in there own units.I got a little confused withg the Woman who conspired the murder of Caesar all going back to Caesar going back to his wife for political reasons.And your spot on with the everyday lives and how the Romans outside politics must have behaved. I think fundamentally Caesar wanted to be a king. And that finished him.I guess the series could continue. Especially following the womans threats to punish and chase Caesars Lady friend.We know from History Octavian- Augustus proved a worthy succesor and probably more politically astute than Caesar. Im sure Augustus would put the crazy woman out to pasture.Kenny.Sorry I am awful with the names.

[marcus]

The names can get confusing - Servilia was the mistress that he spurned, and Brutus's mother; Atia was Caesar's niece, and mother of Octavian.I heard earlier this week that HBO might be pulling out of doing a second series, because of viewer drop-off (and they put in 90% of the money); but the BBC seemed pretty sure that there *would* be another series in 2007 ... so I shall wait and see.The gladiator scene at the end was, as you say, brutal - and extremely well done. It was really quite nasty!ATBMarcus

[marcus]

The names can get confusing - Servilia was the mistress that he spurned, and Brutus's mother; Atia was Caesar's niece, and mother of Octavian.I heard earlier this week that HBO might be pulling out of doing a second series, because of viewer drop-off (and they put in 90% of the money); but the BBC seemed pretty sure that there *would* be another series in 2007 ... so I shall wait and see.The gladiator scene at the end was, as you say, brutal - and extremely well done. It was really quite nasty!ATBMarcus

[jan]

Kenny, I am not in the UK but a feature on Rome has been running in the USA also. But your statement about putting the crazy woman out to pasture caught my attention. You seem to think that Octavius-Augustus is a better judge of character than Julius Caesar from your statements here. Do you have something against crazy women?

[jan]

Kenny, I am not in the UK but a feature on Rome has been running in the USA also. But your statement about putting the crazy woman out to pasture caught my attention. You seem to think that Octavius-Augustus is a better judge of character than Julius Caesar from your statements here. Do you have something against crazy women?

[kennyxx]

No Jan It was just a phrase. Marcus can testify the woman got the hump when Caesar dumped her. She made sacrifices and even scaratched some armour. She was really into Nailing caesar. She was the ultimate woman scorned.Im saying Augustus proved himself a much better ruler he lived to an old age without any people getting pissed they wanted to assasinate him. He was as far as I know a moderate and brilliant politician.We know Caesar upset too many people and really got too big for his boots. Hence the assasination.Kenny

[kennyxx]

No Jan It was just a phrase. Marcus can testify the woman got the hump when Caesar dumped her. She made sacrifices and even scaratched some armour. She was really into Nailing caesar. She was the ultimate woman scorned.Im saying Augustus proved himself a much better ruler he lived to an old age without any people getting pissed they wanted to assasinate him. He was as far as I know a moderate and brilliant politician.We know Caesar upset too many people and really got too big for his boots. Hence the assasination.Kenny

[jan]

Hi Kenny, I just wrote a post for you at the King Kong site about CF. Just wanted to make sure that you know. As for Caesar being too big for his boots, that's a new one. I thought that was just in the mind of his murderers, not that it is a fact. I taught the play by Shakespeare during the time of the Kennedy Assassination and I always associate the two of those together. It is also always associated with Lincoln who was never too big for his boots at all. I still always love the sound of The Valiant Taste of death but once, Cowards die a thousand times. As a result of that thought which is mostly Will Shakespeare, I have always admired Caesar. And the Kennedy myth is that like Caesar was warned about the Ides of March, so was Kennedy warned about going to Dallas in those bad times, but like Caesar, he went anyway, unafraid of anything like death too. After all he had seen much of it in the Pacific, so what is there to fear?

[jan]

Hi Kenny, I just wrote a post for you at the King Kong site about CF. Just wanted to make sure that you know. As for Caesar being too big for his boots, that's a new one. I thought that was just in the mind of his murderers, not that it is a fact. I taught the play by Shakespeare during the time of the Kennedy Assassination and I always associate the two of those together. It is also always associated with Lincoln who was never too big for his boots at all. I still always love the sound of The Valiant Taste of death but once, Cowards die a thousand times. As a result of that thought which is mostly Will Shakespeare, I have always admired Caesar. And the Kennedy myth is that like Caesar was warned about the Ides of March, so was Kennedy warned about going to Dallas in those bad times, but like Caesar, he went anyway, unafraid of anything like death too. After all he had seen much of it in the Pacific, so what is there to fear?