Tocharians in Bactria?

[dean]

Hi, first- it is so nice to be once again writing on this splendid forum! Second, after Alexander's death and things "went to pot" someone talked of the Greeks left behind in Bactria. Now I must confess my knowledge about Alexander is limited principally to the living years not the aftermath and so I was just curious. The comment was regarding "Tocharians" and from what I understood the note seemed to be saying that the Tocharians gave the Greeks in Bactria a hammering. But I didn't quite honestly understand the full meaning. I have since looked up the word "Tocharian" and get confused messages a) it was indo european language and b) a historical race from China? Either way I couldn't quite resolve the enigma or understand much the comment. Does anyone know of the fate of the Greeks in Bactria after Alexander's death or anything to decipher this?

[nick]

Hi Dean -
I'm not a specialist - but I'll try to do my best.Our modern concept is that all of China is inhabited by Chinese - or at least people related to the Chinese. However, the western parts of modern China - especially the large province around Urumqi - were once populated by peoples of Eurasian stock: the Tocharians. (They may have been related to the more familiar 'Scythians'.) The Tocharians are not mentioned in Alexander's history, but they feature as mercenaries in later Parthian armies, e.g. in the army of Phraates battling the Seleucid king Antiochus VII Sidetes in 129 BC.So basically we have a non-Chinese Caucasian 'race' that inhabited present-day western China, making its entrance on the stage of world history in the centuries after Alexander. If you watch popular networks like Discovery, you might occasionally see documentaries about excavations around Urumqi, revealing a prosperous civilisation of peoples that were clearly (as their sculptures show) not Chinese. I know nothing about their raids in Bactria, but that fits in with the broad picture of various peoples from Central-Asia (Huns, Mongols, Tocharians) migrating westwards. As mercenaries they were completely unreliable, as I'm afraid: after Phraates' victory over the Seleucids (a battle in which the Tocharians played no vital role at all) they started a mutiny and raided parts of the Parthian empire.Maybe someone else can shed more light on the issue.Regards -
Nick

[agesilaos]

These Tocharians must be synonymous with the Saka most sources say extinguished the Greek prescence in Bactria c135BC.The kingdom was established by Diodotos c250BC when he revolted from Antiochos II and despite 're-conquest' by Antiochos III the Great soon fell out of Seleukid control following his defeat by the Romans. this period is one of the few for which we have a narrative history preserved in Polybios otherwise all we have are their sometimes splendid coins and the ramblings of Justin.Prior to this the Greeks in Bactria had revolted following Alexander's death under Philon but thy were crushed by a Macedonian army sent by Perdikkas under Pithon( Diodoros XVIII 6ff)Hope this of interest, W.W.Tarn wrote a book on these kingdoms 'The Greeks of Bactria and India' I think

[davej]

This may be of some interest to you. I lifted it from the AHST222 course page at Macquarie University in Sydney. Regarding the fate of some of Alexander's soldiers. Obviously they did quite well.The Burushaski people, who number less than 100,000 people, live in the almost inaccessible valleys in North Western Pakistan in the Karakoram mountain range. They claim descent from five of Alexander the GreatGÇÖs soldiers and GÇÿtheir Persian wivesGÇÖ and anthropologically display Mediterranean, Nordic and Alpine characteristics. Their language has been considered genetically isolated and there have been numerous unsuccessful attempts to relate it to languages such as Basque, the Caucasic languages, Nubian, Sumerian etc.
A/Prof Casule is the author of the book Basic Burushaski Etymologies (1998) in which, following the strict procedures of comparative analysis developed within Indo-European linguistics, he argues for an Indo-European layer (outside of Indo-Iranian) in the language-isolate Burushaski spoken in North Western Pakistan. He elaborates a close relationship with Phrygian (a Paleobalkanic language considered by some linguists related to Ancient Macedonian), originally the language of a Paleobalkanic people who moved to Asia Minor where it became the language of one of the most developed civilisations (of King MidasGÇÖ fame). In this lecture Casule will discuss the compelling evidence for such a linguistic correlation in light of the new material in his second book on Burushaski etymologies. Some of the extralinguistic evidence will also be discussed.

[susan]

This is really interesting, thanks for sending it.
Susan