Emperor Penguins & Warriors

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jan
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Emperor Penguins & Warriors

Post by jan »

I was watching The True Story of Alexander by History Channel on YouTube this past week, and then that was followed by the video story of Genghis Khan done by the BBC, and it suddenly occurred to me that those long lines of Macedonians followed by Mongolian lines equally as long reminded me of the march of the Emperor Penguins made famous in a movie years back.

Then again this evening I watched the Rome Battle stories of Chaeronea, Gaugemela, Hydapses and was struck by the thought that few understand why it is that waves of military fought other military leaving scores of dead and wounded. The word sinister cropped up somewhere in one of the stories about Alexander and I began to wonder if people truly do not understand that these wars when played out as at the Rome Battle video games appear to be as Homer would describe them, playthings of the gods. It does seem that only a god could rightfully command an army such as Alexander had done, later other military warrior leaders had done, and emerge quite so successful as they appear to have been.

I am inclined to believe that being a warrior is an instinct in man as deep as that of the Emperor penguin to march to Antarctica to produce his egg and future heir. So long as the earth revolves around the sun it seems that man will be at war. And some god will be leading them on....
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Fiona
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Re: Emperor Penguins & Warriors

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I guess the penguins have no choice; they have to obey their instincts. Humans can choose to control their instincts, but that doesn't mean they don't have them, and there must surely be an instinct for war, or there wouldn't have been so many of them. I agree that there will always be war.
I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. It sounds bad, I know - pointless, wasteful, often cruel - surely humans will advance past the point of ever wanting it? And of course it's responsible for terrible suffering for individuals affected. But looking at it dispassionately, it seems to be one of those things you just can't get away from, like forces of nature that cause great destruction but produce upheaval and change - as they are meant to. That's what they're for, that's their real purpose.
Not every man (or woman) who's ever marched off in one of those long lines was there as an unwilling conscript. What makes them go? There will always be plenty of cynical answers to that question, but it seems to me that the desire to test yourself - the desire for glory, if you like - is always there, and is a result of the seeming hopelessness of the human condition. Faced with the inevitability of death, some people choose to risk life - and take life - as a defiance.
I think that pre-Christian societies understood that very well, and saw it as a valid response.
Getting to your point about the gods, I'm not certain I have understood you correctly - do you mean that even the leaders, such as Alexander, were the playthings of the gods, or that the exceptional success of such leaders as Alexander could only have come from the gods?
And whichever you meant, I'm guessing that you mean that was how it was perceived at the time.
What about now? Do you feel that there really is some kind of divine force controlling things, or what would you say to the suggestion that we are all at the mercy of our genes, and will end up doing what they want us to do, much as the penguins do?
Interesting post, thanks!
Fiona
jan
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Re: Emperor Penguins & Warriors

Post by jan »

Thanks, Fiona, I appreciate your response. That is a good one. I like your question also. I just finished reading all the comments at the post on speed and really had not known whether my post had gotten on the board or not.

I do mean that the earth has to come under control in terms of unification and that the gods do have the role of causing that to happen. Yes, I believe in the divinity aspect of a man or woman, (Joan of Arc) having the responsibility of leading a nation to battle. In today's godless and more secular society, few wish to recognize the goodness within a natural born leader of men or women in battle.

I agree that mankind has the intelligence to make choices, and there is no choice but to defend one's self when under attack. Both rabbits and dear give up when caught and just permit the attacker to take them, which is a lot like what the god Jesus did when he submitted to his fate as well. His lesson is one of submission to the will of the Father that directed him.

However, in most cases, in mankind the same as in jungle lore, lions, tigers, etc., mankind does fight to the death to defend his family, his culture, ultimately his nation and lifestyle.

I recognized while watching the series that these many men governed by the belief that they were chosen by the gods to do the will of the gods that they conquered many other nations in opposition to their own, and therefore, established a culture of their own. Both Genghis Khan and Alexander did exactly the same in that respect, thus, making me believe that they were truly divinely driven.

The end result was the same. Both achieved a kind of success as being the initators of a lifestyle for a large mass of people.

I am sure that future generations will recognize similar traits in later generations whether that of European heritage or of American heritage. And surely, in the future, there will appear another leader who will have to meet that call to duty that seems to happen consistently and regularly.
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Fiona
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Re: Emperor Penguins & Warriors

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Hi Jan, thanks, I see what you mean. Assuming for the sake of argument that god/gods exist and have an interest in the fate of the earth, as most religions teach, then it's not unreasonable to suppose that they might choose certain individuals to fulfil their aims, and Alexander might very well have been one such.
It's very interesting that you mention 'goodness' in this context, because few people, I suspect, would call Alexander 'good'. But it depends what we mean by 'good'. In Judaism and Christianity, for example, there is the strong theme running through the scriptures that a good man is one who does the will of god. Now, if it is the will of god that a conqueror goes out and conquers, and the conqueror does that very thing, does that make him a good man?
I think there are plenty of theologians who would answer yes, it does.
Then there is the human perspective. Did Alexander feel he was doing the will of a god? I suspect not - though he might have been, without knowing it, I'm not denying that - because the evidence suggests that he thought himself divine, or at least, the son of a god, rather than the obedient agent of a god.
And yet that in itself is suggestive, because where does a spark like that come from?
We are often pointed to his sense of family for the answer here, to his descent from Heracles, and his concern about who his father really was, whether or not his father was Zeus, yet answers like these may be looking in the wrong direction, ie, backwards.
Religions change and grow over time, and it's not impossible that an innovative man like Alexander, a forward-thinking, well-educated man, might have been one of the first to sense the new way of thinking about gods that Christianity later brought to the world, namely that all humans are the children of god.
I wonder sometimes if the insight he gained at Siwa was a strong sense that he was a son of god, without realising that he was not the only one!
I think it is good to ponder such things sometimes, whatever our own beliefs, because Alexander lived in a very different world, and the way he thought about spiritual matters is important, and a large part of what made him the man he was.
Fiona
jan
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Re: Emperor Penguins & Warriors

Post by jan »

Goodness is a term that would have been used in both camps, the Macedonians and/or the Persians. In a military sense, the good man would have had to have been the man who accomplished his own task, no matter what it may have been, blacksmith, toolmaker, weapons caretaker, shield makers, garment worker, etc., etc., and of course the soldier who survived by killing any and all of his opponents. As I understand it, in that time period, the military life was a life of honor, of duty, and of courage and tenacity. So in that respect, good would have been responsible and capable as well as simply competent in work.

The God aspect or Divine aspect of nature had to have meant more than that, but rather one who has inspiration, who had intuitive knowledge, who had great and superior intellect, and as such as a child, Alexander is supposed to have had all those attributes and then some.

I believe he would have been considered overconfident in today's standards as his capabilities were such that he dared to do things that others would have avoided. I am one of those who believes that his belief in his abilities and judgement calls were such that he had little doubts about himself at all. I consider his visit to Siwa a statement of respect and recognition more than a journey or quest to learn an answer to a question of birthright, though most consider it that. He had to have confirmation of his mother's assertions, and yet one would wonder why after all he had already accomplished he truly needed any further information from oracles. While I am a novice at studying the history of Alexander, I am aware that he began to always wear the ram horns signifying Zeus Ammon after he met with the priests of the temple. I suspect that was the one signal that he is truly believed himself to be son of Zeus.
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amyntoros
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Re: Emperor Penguins & Warriors

Post by amyntoros »

jan wrote:While I am a novice at studying the history of Alexander, I am aware that he began to always wear the ram horns signifying Zeus Ammon after he met with the priests of the temple. I suspect that was the one signal that he is truly believed himself to be son of Zeus.
Jan, I don't know of any historical evidence which tells us that Alexander always wore the ram's horns of Zeus Ammon after Siwah. If he had done so it would certainly have created a stir; witness the reaction to his adoption of some aspects of Persian royal clothing. The coin portraits with ram's horns are simply iconic representations, the same as those showing Alexander wearing a lion's head. Even on the Alexander sarcophagus the lion's head "helmet" is there to clearly identify the figure as Alexander, IMO, and I truly doubt that he wore such a helmet when in battle. If his helmet "of iron, but gleamed like polished silver" was deemed worthy of mention by Plutarch (Alexander 32.9), I expect that he would also have written about Alexander wearing a lion's head helmet or ram's horns.

There is, in fact, only one disaproving record of Alexander wearing ram's horns and that is in the context of "fancy dress" for his symposiums.
Athenaeus XII. 537 d - f

Speaking of Alexander the Great's luxury, Ephippus of Olynthus in his book On the Death of Hephaestion and Alexander says that in the park there was erected for him a golden throne and couches with silver legs, on which he sat when transacting business in the company of his boon companions. And Nicobule says that during dinner every sort of contestant exerted their efforts to entertain the king, and that in the course of his last dinner Alexander in person acted from memory a scene from the Andromeda of Euripides, and pledging toasts in unmixed wine with zest compelled the others also to do likewise. Ephippus, again, says that Alexander also wore the sacred vestments at his dinner parties, at one time putting on the purple robe of Ammon, and thin slippers and horns just like the gods, at another time the costume of Artemis, which he often wore even in his chariot, wearing the Persian garb and showing above the shoulders the bow and hunting-spear of the goddess, while at still other times he was garbed in the costume of Hermes; on other occasions as a rule, and in every-day use, he wore a purple riding-cloak, a purple tunic with white stripes, and the Macedonian hat with the royal fillet; but on social occasions he wore the winged sandals and broad-brimmed hat on his head, and carried the caduceus in his hand; yet often, again, he bore the lion's skin and club in imitation of Heracles. What wonder that the Emperor Commodus of our time also had the club of Hercules lying beside him in his chariot with the lion's skin spread out beneath him, and desired to be called Hercules, seeing that Alexander, Aristotle's pupil, got himself up like so may gods, to say nothing of the goddess Artemis?


Best regards,
Amyntoros

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jan
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Re: Emperor Penguins & Warriors

Post by jan »

:wink: ahh shucks! I should not have said always....but I do recall an author who made that comment, that it was after he had gone to the oracles that he began to wear the rams horns...sorry about that...as in all true/false tests, always should always be considered one of those key words that says uhoh! Thanks, Amyntoros...appreciate your good work! Jan I can't stop laughing now... :D
jan
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Re: Emperor Penguins & Warriors

Post by jan »

P.S. thanks for that interesting selection about how Alexander seemed to love roleplaying the gods so much! That is a very well-written statement about how comfortable Alexander is in wearing a variety of identities. No wonder I read that he was called a chameleon also. I wonder who was in charge of wardrobe then...any ideas? :)
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