Has Oliver Stone Crucified Alexander ?

[kennyxx]

Pre Oliver Stones Movie.
There were several projects, Movies and even a mini series From Mel Gibson. I guess mostly speculation but it was Almost a done thing with Lenardo Dicaprio and Kidman.
I do know following Gladiator and Troy there was an appetite for Alexander a real legendary story. Im sure the people directors had a personal knowledge with Alexander and knew his real story.
Were it not for Stone toataly smashing or making Alexander as he did then I would wager every one else has been put right off and wouldnt touch Alexander with a barge pole.
Irespective of how some may say the movie wasnt bad. It has good points but as a whole has crucified Alexander once and for all.We get BBC dramas about Caesar. Remakes of Troy. Inventions of Braveheart. Allbetter than Alexander and some much better. Stone had the oportunity to tell one of the greatest stories legends ever. Indeed the caption. The Greatest Legend was real. Stone gave us a limp harpooned belly up whale. Alexanders story does need the treatment and If Gibson or anyone has the balls to do it then its hats off but they must know its a huge gamble.Kenny

[Paralus]

G'day Kenny.Skewered it one great Graeco-Macedonian souvlaki!Unfortunately GÇô like most historical subjects Stone's tackled GÇô he "coitus-interruptupted" it. He indeed had the opportunity but, like most blokes, his effort was premature. Fancy the entire Achaemenid Empire falling in one glorious orgasm of a battle.Enough of the redundant reproductive references. The movie may have had some redeeming features but I can't remember them. Possibly Jhelum but, then it all faded to artistic red and the assault on the Malli became conflated with Porus, aaarrgggh!Troy was a better filmGǪoh oh, did I write that? Time for bed Paralus. One too many reds ladGǪ.
Now, where's my Badian and Bosworth bedtime reading?Paralus.

[marcus]

Well, I don't entirely agree with the Stone-slating opinions, although I don't disagree that the film could have been better - heck, the Director's Cut already *was* better (which makes one wonder why they didn't release that version in the first place).Still, I don't think that the other projects would have continued had Stone's version been better received - there's only so much room for films on the same topic. Remember that 2 Robin Hood films came out at pretty much the same time ... and one of them (the *much* better one) disappeared simply because it didn't have Kevin Costner in it; there were two Wyatt Earp films that came out at around the same time - and mercifully it was the Costner one that faded into the background.I don't think there would have been room for another Alexander film; and I don't think there will be for some time.ATBMarcus

[jim]

The Stonian ATG was indeed a disservice to ATG.The portrayal of ATG as some politically correct dude in touch with his inner child. An Oprah Winfrey type character in the modern tabloid sense rather then the military genius he once was.Hephasion comes accross like a poster child for sensitiveity training then a general. Stone did a good job on the movie Wall St but ATG film puts him in the Hall of shame. Maybe stone will use the same cast to do a Movie on Genghis Khan.The kinder more gentler political correct version of Genghis.

[kennyxx]

Total DungIts fair to say your right Marcus 2 dont generally work. But at least maybe an Alternate Alexander would have been better than a stupid Lion Growling. Insecure wimp this guy was. Stone Alexander had no authority nor convinced me in any way apart from The Clietus DEath Scene and Val Kilmers performance. Alas its done Colin Farrel no favours his last movie New World wasnt on anywhere. I wonder if it was any good. If Darius or any king thought Stones Alexander was comming against him Im sure he would have put his feet up said some insultive things and Alexander would have ran back crying to his mother. Who would in turn put Alexander over her knee give him six of the best and send him to bed.I must take back my hopes for Gibson doing a story. Even though he makes good films and Braveheart been one of the best. Hes more fantasy than the Fantastic four. I read William Wallace and nothing in the movie was true. Besides hes got something against the English. Perhaps his ansestors were English deportees. Sent to Australia for bad Morris Dancing. Anyway thanks to Mr Stone Alexander The Great RIP.Kenny

[jan]

Hi Kenny, Did you see Girl Interrupted? It had Angelina Jolie and Jared Leto in it as well, and some other actress famous for shoplifting and defended by Mark Geragos, can't remember her name right now. I guess that Oliver Stone must have figured that the cast from a "nut" house probably would figure in his movie, even more "nutsy" and so went from there. In the end, I have always had the impression that most biographers thought Alexander to be totally insane throughout his long life. They call it madness though.What do you think of Daniel Craig for the role of James Bond? Worse or better than that of Colin Farrell for Alexander?I guess Oliver Stone wanted to think that he could psychoanalyze a madman, and turned what we think of as a lion into a kitten. That is some strange kind of shrink to me.But unlike everyone else responding so far, I believe that there is still interest in any movie that is a great movie, and that Alexander's life is the stuff that great writers and producers dream of. Let it be, and someone with the right stuff will make it yet! I just betcha!P.S. I am still sticking to my dreams in which Alexander is sane, courageous, and daring! not a bit mad at all! Just overly devoted to his gods!

[amyntoros]

Just wanted to add this - no matter what anyone thinks of the movie, on the whole it can't be described as doing a disservice to Alexander. If it made people curious enough to want to know more about him and/or ancient Greek history then it can only be a good thing. This from Rogueclassicsm a week or so ago:http://www.atrium-media.com/rogueclassi ... 2.html"The number of Australian university students studying ancient Greek History recorded an impressive rise because of Hollywood.The newspaper The Australian Financial Review dealt with the phenomenon with an article signed by Luke Slattery who mentions that registration to the ancient Greek History course in the University of Sydney recorded a notable increase as the number of students signing up to attend reached 320 this year compared to 230 in 2004.He writes that the gods are smiling again but this turnabout can be traced back to the popular culture of the film industry and movies like Troy, Alexander the Great and Gladiator. He added that students in the last classes of high school who selected the ancient History class reached 10,300 surpassing the number of students studying contemporary History."I doubt that this only happened in Australia!Best regards,Amyntoros

[Efstathios]

There is still room for another Alexander movie and a mini series. The things that i liked in Stone's movie:-The music.The soundrack by Papathanasiou is awsome.-Angelina,she was great for the role of Olympias,apart from her accent...-Val kilmer,great for the role of Philip too. The things that i didnt like:-Many important events were missing from the movie in contrast with other events that didnt belong there ,like the "Alexander kissing Bagoas" scene or the scene with Roxanne in bed with Alexander.-He could have made a better portrayal of events,including many that werent in the movie.Seeing Stone's movie you think that Alexander's biggest accomplishments or events were the gaugamela battle and the battle at Hydaspes.There are so much more that he could have included without making the movie much longer.-If he had ommited the sex and kissing scenes he would have had more space for adding other important historical events too.-Collin Farell wasnt that good as Alexander.His face is always like he is about to start crying or something.-Hephaestion didnt have long hair-The scene near the end where the soldiers refuse to go any further is totally wrong.In the movie we see the soldiers almost jumping Alexander with aggresion,while in reality they were somewhat afraid of him and were sitting outside his tent not eating anything e.t.c until Alexander went out and announced that they were going back.-The scene with Bagoas (did i already mentioned it?P)And some other things ,not that important... So overall,Stone didnt do a very good film portraying Alexander.He got many things wrong,and he said that at the end.

[Gary]

"The movie may have had some redeeming features but I can't remember them. "I really liked the de Mille-style spectacles like the march into Babylon. I also liked the quirky in-jokes like Olympias having the Ram In The Thicket [1] in her bedroom.But I agree with Kenny and others; Stone and Farrell made Alexander so pathetic that he wouldn't inspire me to go to the shop for milk and bread, let alone fight my way across the known world.[1] here's one:
http://www.museum.upenn.edu/new/exhibit ... tion.shtml
and here's the other:
http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/compa ... on=summary

[marcus]

"Hephaestion didn't have long hair."Er ... have I missed something in the sources, but I don't remember seeing anything about that?ATBMarcus

[Efstathios]

I remember seeing a bust of Hephaestion in the net somewhere.Ok,it's not of big importance though. By the way, why wont the page save my password?Each time i have to logg out and relogin again in order to post.I have enabled the cookie,but doesnt seem to work.

[ruthaki]

I have to agree that the movie left out some significant scenes in Alexander's life, and I did disagree with some of the casting, but on the whole, after seeing it three times I really did enjoy the spectacle and I was impressed with the docu them made about how Colin Farrell was trained to act like a commander. It was such a vast subject that to do it justice, a lot had to be cut but perhaps, as has been suggested, Stone left out some important parts and included others that could have been cut. And yes, I'd go see it again, or for sure will buy the CD if it has the directors cuts in it.

[Paralus]

Yes Gary, nothing like a decent anachronism to inspire historical authenticity.Too many "de Mille" type moments for my liking.Could have been worse though. We may have been treated to the burning of Persepolis and - had Charlton Heston played Parmenio - been treated also to the line "Oh my God(s), you stupid bastard, you really did it! You actually went and did it!"Paralus.

[Gary]

"Too many "de Mille" type moments for my liking."But what would be the movie without them?"Could have been worse though."In some ways it was; Persepolis could have been another grand scene to appeal to me. Instead, all the tedious family history and romantic asides, making eyes at Hephaistion and romping with Roxanne, are straight out of the Hollywood soap factory, didn't contribute anything to the movie or our understanding of Alexander. But I'll still buy a copy on eBay