The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipolis

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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by system1988 »

http://www.athensvoice.gr Whole sphinxes and detail (How nice nails ).IV century bC.
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by Taphoi »

Thanks, Pauline.

So the Greek Ministry of Culture is officially stating that the date of the Sphinxes is stylistically the last quarter of the 4th century BC; that the sphinxes and the lion are from the same sculpture workshop and are all made of Thassos marble; that they have found sphinx feathers and hope to reconstruct the wings; that the sphinxes currently stand 1.45m tall and would be about 2m with their heads; that they have found a bit more of the lion's back and that they have removed 11 stones from the sealing wall. Looks like an entrance is expected behind it. Looks like there are three chambers inside according to geophysical surveys (perhaps GPR?)

Thanks, Agesilaos for the Olympias tomb "discovered" to lie at Pydna by devising alternative reconstructions of very fragmentary inscriptions. I have not read it in detail, but it looks extraordinarily tenuous at first glance. It does not inspire confidence in its complex reasoning that it starts by asserting that Olympias died at Pydna. The account of Diodorus makes this look very questionable. He makes it clear that enough time elapsed between Olympias's surrender at Pydna and her death for Aristonous at Amphipolis to get news of the surrender, for Cassander to get news that Aristonous intended nevertheless not to surrender and to persuade Olympias to write to Aristonous, then for Aristonous to receive the letter and to agree to surrender. Pydna is about 100 miles from Amphipolis, so this process must have taken weeks. Is it really likely that Cassander kept his army deployed outside Pydna for all that time? Or did he go to Pella? It looks as though he went to Pella, because Diodorus says that Monimus surrendered Pella to him. The parents of Olympias's victims were conveniently on hand to complain about Olympias to the Macedonian Assembly. Did Cassander summon them all to Pydna? Olympias was killed in a palace rather than a fortress: was this a palace at Pydna or at Pella or Aegae?

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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by Taphoi »

Actually, it is possible to read Diodorus 19.50-51 as meaning that after securing the surrender of Pydna, Cassander marched against Monimus and took the surrender of Pella and that he then proceeded against Aristonous at Amphipolis, who initially refused to surrender until Olympias ordered him to hand the city to Cassander. If so, Olympias actually died at Amphipolis!!!
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by Paralus »

That's possible but how likely? If we take Diodorus at his written word, Kassandros did not march on either city. What he did, according to Diodorus 19.50.6, was to send "men to take over Pella and Amphipolis" after he got possession of Pydna. Kassandros, himself (and his main army one supposes), did not march on these cities. Now, nothing says that following the refusal to surrender Amphipolis Kassandros did not march to the city but he probably did not. The 'main game' was the Macedonian Queen. He likely, as Diodorus says, had her write her letter ordering the surrender which will have been accepted on his behalf. I suspect Kassandros in is Pella where the subsequent 'trial' of Olympias is being organised. Aristonous' murder could be left to whichever general accepted his surrender.
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by agesilaos »

Kassandros promises to give Olympias a ship on which to escape to Athens, this would suggest she was at a port, which Pydna is but neither Amphipolis or Pella are; though it would not preclude her travelling to one from either of these, of course but Kassandros was no fool, and whilst he had managed to get the Army to condemn her, the subsequent failure to make good the sentance will have alerted him to her remaining power. He had her nicely isolated in Pydna and would not have wanted to set her on a Royal Progress which would spread her influence and he could find himself outflanked by fickle public opinion. In my opinion he would have kept her here she was, among the people she had condemned to starve; which raises a further point, how fit would she be to travel? She was no spring chicken, and had just withstood a siege of great hardship and debatable length, but possibly over a year.

After Kassandros' death only Pyrrhos would have any interest in Olympias, as a fellow Aeacid, had he re-buried her in such style one might have expected Plutarch to mention it, not least because he does make Pyrrhos 'the most Alexander-like' of the Diadochoi. The provision of a modest tomb at Pydna on his orders might escape comment. It may not even be a reburial but just where Kassandros buried her corpse, had he left her to the dogs it would have made the news, the tradition is firmly anti-Antipatrid.
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by system1988 »

agesilaos wrote:Kassandros promises to give Olympias a ship on which to escape to Athens, this would suggest she was at a port, which Pydna is but neither Amphipolis or Pella are; though it would not preclude her travelling to one from either of these, of course but Kassandros was no fool, and whilst he had managed to get the Army to condemn her, the subsequent failure to make good the sentance will have alerted him to her remaining power. He had her nicely isolated in Pydna and would not have wanted to set her on a Royal Progress which would spread her influence and he could find himself outflanked by fickle public opinion. In my opinion he would have kept her here she was, among the people she had condemned to starve; which raises a further point, how fit would she be to travel? She was no spring chicken, and had just withstood a siege of great hardship and debatable length, but possibly over a year.

After Kassandros' death only Pyrrhos would have any interest in Olympias, as a fellow Aeacid, had he re-buried her in such style one might have expected Plutarch to mention it, not least because he does make Pyrrhos 'the most Alexander-like' of the Diadochoi. The provision of a modest tomb at Pydna on his orders might escape comment. It may not even be a reburial but just where Kassandros buried her corpse, had he left her to the dogs it would have made the news, the tradition is firmly anti-Antipatrid.
The Strimon river was navigable.The fleet of Alexander gathered there , before leaving for Asia.
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by agesilaos »

Arrian I 11 has Alexander march passed the mouths of the Strymon but nothing about the fleet gathering there; this does not alter the point that the river is navigable as you say; this does not alter the epigraphic evidence of a tomb in Pydna, though nor the probabiity that Kassandros did not move Olympias, or even the fact that there was no one to build a huge tomb for her nor that the lion points to a male occupant(s). But the escape by ship could have been from Amphipolis or Pella, it is only my opinion that it was not. :)
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by amyntoros »

The sphinx on the left has now been fully revealed:

Image
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by system1988 »

Check this link everyone

http://www.newsbomb.gr/politismos/story ... ystika-tis

Today the door under the Sphinxes was found as well as the one' half' capital that is still red and blue.

Best
Last edited by system1988 on Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by gepd »

Thanks a lot,

these look nice. I assume the source (based on the watermark) should be here (http://www.yppo.gr/2/g22.jsp?obj_id=58074 - ministry of culture), where one can always look for the latest official statements and material regarding the excavation. The location for all press releases is here: http://www.yppo.gr/2/g20.jsp Unfortunately, they stopped publishing press statements in English, although an English vesion of the website exists.

Regarding the tomb: could it be a monument equivalent to that of the tumuluses of Marathon for the Athenians and the Plateans, or the tumulus at Chaeronia (which was built for Macedonians)?
Could the of Amphipolis tomb have been constructed to honour the ones who participated in the Asian expedition (generals, higher officers and soldiers included)? Not sure how many of those who followed Alexander for most of the years of his expedition managed to return to Macedonia later, but apart from those, this huge structure may be dedicated also to the ones who never managed to get back. I would think that Macedonias would have appreciated somethng that grand to recall the achievements of their army.

If statements that the tomb was constructed the last quarter of the 4th century BC are true, I would infer that the tomb was not intended for Alexander, since his body was hijacked by Ptolemy earlier than the construction begun. Also, even, if eventually evidence is found that Olympias or Roxanne/Alexander IV are in there, I am not sure that it would necessarilly imply that the actual purpose for which the structure was built was not to entomb any of those three persons (given that they were murdered by Cassander). The fact, however, that they talk about three large rooms inside the tomb, plus that the closest relatives to Alexander who died near Amphipolis and close to the period that the tomb is thought to have been constructed are also three, is also an interesting coincidence.
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by Taphoi »

The architectural detailing and paintwork around the entrance is really quite magnificent and very reminiscent of the Ionic order decoration of the tombs of the Queens at Aegae (e.g. Eurydice I and the Rhomaios tomb.) There are also echoes of the sarcophagi from Sidon.
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Entrance to the Amphipolis Lion Tomb 1
Entrance to the Amphipolis Lion Tomb 1
amphipolis12a.jpg (250.5 KiB) Viewed 10211 times
Entrance to the Amphipolis Lion Tomb 1
Entrance to the Amphipolis Lion Tomb 1
amphipolis12b.jpg (231.7 KiB) Viewed 10211 times
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by Taphoi »

Perhaps it's worth noting that the decoration of the architrave at the entrance to the Amphipolis Lion Tomb is a pretty good match to the decoration above the chariot frieze in the tomb of Alexander IV (Tomb III) under the Great Mound at Aegae. The resonance with the late 4th century and the royal tombs at Aegae is really very strong.
Section of the Chariot Frieze in the tomb of Alexander IV at Aegae
Section of the Chariot Frieze in the tomb of Alexander IV at Aegae
ChariotFriezeAleIV.jpg (215.83 KiB) Viewed 10157 times
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by agesilaos »

Whoah, there! Comparing an internal decoration with a tomb facade? Not good practice, curb your enthusiasm a bit and read this, if you have not already http://www.kalamus.com.mk/pdf_spisanija ... 3%20ok.pdf . The Amphipolis Tomb looks distyle (two columns), characteristic of the Third century rather than the Fourth where the facades are all tetrastyle (four columns) and Doric order rather than Ionic, although that does appear inside the Tomb of Eurydike. Do correct me if I am wrong I have only glanced through the paper and won't get to read it 'til tonight but it seemed important to inform the speculation. So far we have only a facade and not even all of that.
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by Taphoi »

agesilaos wrote:The Amphipolis Tomb looks distyle (two columns), characteristic of the Third century rather than the Fourth where the facades are all tetrastyle (four columns) and Doric order rather than Ionic, although that does appear inside the Tomb of Eurydike.
The facade pf the tomb of Alexander IV (probably late 4th century BC) has two half columns, whereas the facade of the Rhomaios tomb (usually dated to the early 3rd century BC) has four half columns (Ionic). I don't think that there is any consistent pattern in the evidence to suggest that they changed the number of columns at a particular date. There is a lot of overlap, perhaps complete overlap.
The painted architectural decoration is essentially the same whether on the facade on on the interior. Alexander IV's tomb appears to have very similar decoration above the frieze on its facade and above the frieze in its interior and the decoration of the ionic architectural decoration inside the tomb of Eurydice I is very similar to the Ionic decoration on the facade of the Rhomaios tomb.
The Amphipolis Lion Tomb decoration in isolation from other evidence could range in date over a century or so from the mid-4th to the mid-3rd, but it has been said that coin evidence points to the late 4th particularly and the sculpture (lion and sphinxes) is most consistent with the late 4th. In general, my point would be that the tangible evidence is highly consistent with what the archaeologists on the site have been saying about the date and the speculation about late Hellenistic or even Roman dating (some mentions on this site, but much more on other sites and mailing lists) is looking increasingly ill-founded.
The paper that you have referenced very wisely says: "The chronological development of Macedonian tombs, both cist and chamber, is not yet clear" This alludes to the fact that attempts to pin down a gradual evolution within the royal or sub-royal chamber tombs of the mid-4th to early 3rd centuries have not been very successful - in fact many features overlap within that period: the earliest (Eurydice I) actually look very similar to those supposed to be the latest (Rhomaios tomb).
What the evidence is saying (so far!) is that this tomb fits well within the milieu of royal and sub-royal Macedonian tombs between the mid-4th and early 3rd century BC and there is no reason to doubt what the archaeologists have said: it is a royal or sub-royal Macedonian tomb of the last quarter of the 4th century BC.
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by Taphoi »

Another response to questions raised here and elsewhere (e.g. David Meadows) regarding why they are sphinxes and not griffins: the latest photos (e.g. below) are tending to show that they have indeed had breasts hacked off in the chest area. This is at least much more consistent with early Hellenistic sphinxes (Serapeum sphinxes, Sidon sarcophagus sphinxes...) rather than griffins (but please post any early Hellenistic griffins with breasts that you know of).
Hard to be sure, but it also looks as though their bases are embedded in the architrave.
The Amphipolis sphinxes in a fresh light
The Amphipolis sphinxes in a fresh light
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