an account from Athenaeus(?)

[spitamenes]

I was skimming through Ian Worthingtons book and he mentioned an account of Alexander from an author by the name of Athenaeus. Im sure its not a very prominent account as I am just now coming across his name. And it is apparently written in some kind of antidote style of writing. Does anyone have insight on this guy and what he's all about? Sounded a bit interesting and maybe off the beaten path so Imm trying to find a bit more information.
All the best...
Spitamenes

[marcus]

I was skimming through Ian Worthingtons book and he mentioned an account of Alexander from an author by the name of Athenaeus. Im sure its not a very prominent account as I am just now coming across his name. And it is apparently written in some kind of antidote style of writing. Does anyone have insight on this guy and what he's all about? Sounded a bit interesting and maybe off the beaten path so Imm trying to find a bit more information.
All the best...
Spitamenes

Hi Spitamenes,

Athenaeus did indeed write in an anecdotal style, very much like a dinner party conversation - the book, Deipnosophists, can be translated as "Philosophers at dinner", or something similar.

Within the book there are numerous references to Alexander, providing tidbits of information and occasionally longer descriptions. Very often we learn the names of obscure people in Alexander's entourage as a result. An example would be:

Book 1. 20 a.
There were celebrated jugglers also at Alexander’s court – Scymnus of Tarentum, Philistides of Syracuse, and Heracleitus of Mitylene.

Or snippets of geographical or other information that pertains to Alexander:

Book 2. 42 f.
In the dominion of Carthage there is a well in which the water at the top is like oil, but of a darker hue; they skim this off in globules and use it for sheep and cattle. Among other people also occur springs with a similar oiliness, like the one in Asia, about which Alexander wrote word that he had discovered a well of oil.

Book 3. 124 c
Even the excellent Xenophon, in the Memorabilia, knows of the use of snow in drinking, and Chares of Mitylene, when he recounts the siege of the Indian capital Petra. He says that Alexander dug thirty refrigerating pits which he filled with snow and covered with oak boughs. In this way, he says, snow will last a long time.

Possibly to most famous reference in Athenaeus, however, is his list of Philip's wives, which was taken from Satyrus, and which is the only clear list of Philip's wives and children:

Book 13.557 b – e
Philip of Macedon did not, to be sure, take women along with him on his campaigns, as did Darius, the one who was deposed by Alexander; for Darius although engaged in a war in which his entire empire was at stake, took round with him three hundred and sixty concubines, according to the account given by Dicaearchus in the third book of his History of Greece. Yet Philip always married a new wife with each new war he undertook. “In the twenty-two years of his reign, at any rate,” as Satyrus says in his Life of him, [c] “he married Audata of Illyria, and had by her a daughter, Cynna; he also married Phila, a sister of Derdas and Machatas. Wishing to put in a claim to the Thessalian nation as his own besides others, he begot children by two women of Thessaly, one of whom was Nicesipolis of Pherae, who bore to him Thettalonice, while the other was Philinna of Larisa, by whom he became the father of Arrhidaeus. In addition, he took possession of the Molossian kingdom by marrying Olympias, by whom he had Alexander and Cleopatra, [d] and when he subjugated Thrace, there came over to his side Cothelas the Thracian king, who brought with him his daughter Meda and a large dowry. By marrying her also he thus brought home a second wife after Olympias. After all these women he married Cleopatra, with whom he had fallen in love, the sister of Hippostratus and niece of Attalus; and by bringing her home to supplant Olympias, he threw the entire course of his life into utter confusion. For immediately, during the celebration of the wedding itself, Attalus remarked, ‘But now, I warn you, princes will be born who will be legitimate, and not bastards.” Alexander, on hearing that, threw the goblet which he held in his hand at Attalus, and he retaliated upon Alexander with his own cup. [e] After this Olympias fled to the country of the Molossians, while Alexander went to Illyria. Cleopatra, in her turn, bore to Philip a daughter, the one who was called Europa.

It's available in Loeb editions, in a number of volumes. But you can find it online, as well.

Hope this helps.

ATB

[Paralus]

Not to mention that (in)famous description (from Phylarchus) of Alexander's court in its last year or so (12.55.d-f)....

...for he [Alexander] had a tent capable of containing a hundred couches, and fifty golden pillars supported it. And over it were spread golden canopies wrought with the most superb and costly embroidery, to shade all the upper part of it. And first of all, five hundred Persian Melophori stood all round the inside of it, clad in robes of purple and apple-green; and besides them there were bowmen to the number of a thousand, some clad in garments of a fiery red, and others in purple; and many of them had blue cloaks. And in front of them stood five hundred Macedonian Argyraspides; and in the middle of the tent was placed a golden chair, on which Alexander used to sit and transact business, his body-guards standing all around. And on the outside, and round the tent, was a troop of elephants regularly equipped, and a thousand Macedonians, in Macedonian uniform; and then ten thousand Persians: and the number of those who wore purple amounted to five hundred, to whom Alexander gave this clothing for them to wear. And though he had such a numerous retinue of friends and servants, still no one dared to approach Alexander of his own accord; so great was his dignity and the veneration with which they regarded him.

[marcus]

Not to mention that (in)famous description (from Phylarchus) of Alexander's court in its last year or so (12.55.d-f)....

Indeed. I decided that three excerpts were sufficient - but I love Athenaeus, because he has such good stories. He is, of course, the one who declared that Alexander was "madly devoted to boys".

ATB

[Paralus]

He was almost certainly correct.

[spitamenes]

Marcus, Paralus...
Thanks for the feedback here. Im going to try and pick it up in the Loeb editions. My list of books is getting quite long but this might jump pretty close to the front. A good change of pace maybe. And the Diodoch wars is really catching my interstate as well. Im glad to find there is quite alot of info on the years directly after Alexanders death. Thanks again, Paralus, for all the information in that area.
All the best!
Spitamenes

P.s. what language did Athenaeus write in?

[marcus]

Marcus, Paralus...
Thanks for the feedback here. Im going to try and pick it up in the Loeb editions. My list of books is getting quite long but this might jump pretty close to the front. A good change of pace maybe. And the Diodoch wars is really catching my interstate as well. Im glad to find there is quite alot of info on the years directly after Alexanders death. Thanks again, Paralus, for all the information in that area.
All the best!
Spitamenes

P.s. what language did Athenaeus write in?

He wrote in Greek. If I recall correctly he was born in Naucratis, in Egypt.

I was going to suggest you have a read of the Deipnosophists on the Perseus site but I've just checked and seen that they only have the Greek there. Looks as if the Loeb will have to be the thing!

ATB

[Taphoi]

I was going to suggest you have a read of the Deipnosophists on the Perseus site but I've just checked and seen that they only have the Greek there. Looks as if the Loeb will have to be the thing!

There's a fair bit of Athenaeus in English translation here: http://www.attalus.org/old/athenaeus.html. The 7 volume Loeb set will set you back around 150 dollars
Best wishes,
Andrew

[spitamenes]

$150.00? Between that and the volumes on the Diodach wars im trying to acquire, Alexander and his buddies are turning out to be quite the expensive date!

[marcus]

I was going to suggest you have a read of the Deipnosophists on the Perseus site but I've just checked and seen that they only have the Greek there. Looks as if the Loeb will have to be the thing!

There's a fair bit of Athenaeus in English translation here: http://www.attalus.org/old/athenaeus.html. The 7 volume Loeb set will set you back around 150 dollars
Best wishes,
Andrew

Doh! I didn't think to check Attalus. I knew I'd seen an English translation somewhere online!

ATB

[Alexias]

There are some Alexander extracts from Athenaeus in English here http://www.alexander-sources.org/

[marcus]

There are some Alexander extracts from Athenaeus in English here http://www.alexander-sources.org/

I think that that site has all the Alexander-related references from Athenaeus, although I won't put money on it in case I'm wrong.

Spitamenes - save your dollars for the other books!

ATB

[amyntoros]

I think that that site has all the Alexander-related references from Athenaeus, although I won't put money on it in case I'm wrong.

It should be all of them - I sent Susan the same file you and I have - but you're right not to put money on it because it's entirely possible that I missed something somewhere.

Spitamenes, it's always worthwhile checking Ebay on a regular basis because I picked up all my volumes of Athenaeus at a very good price. The books are old and the translations may not be the best, but it's nice to have them to hand.

Best regards,

[marcus]

I think that that site has all the Alexander-related references from Athenaeus, although I won't put money on it in case I'm wrong.

It should be all of them - I sent Susan the same file you and I have - but you're right not to put money on it because it's entirely possible that I missed something somewhere.

I assumed as much! In which case, I am entirely sure it's all of them ...

ATB

[agesilaos]

A large number of the most informative fragments of the Hellenistic Greek historians are transmitted by
Athenaeus. Unlike the frequently jejune evidence provided by scholiasts, lexicographers and the like, these texts allow
us to draw historiographical conclusions about lost writers: on this basis, scholars have posited, for example, the place
of a given author in the Hellenistic ‘schools’ of history. The importance of Athenaeus as a source for history-writing
between Xenophon and Diodorus calls for detailed study of the Deipnosophist’s method of citing these lost authors. The
present article focuses on Athenaeus’ testimony concerning the downfall of Archaic Sybaris through luxury and excess
in order to show that certain phrases, sentence patterns and even trains of thought can be reliably identified as belonging
to Athenaeus rather than the cited authority. This discovery entails surprising results: traditions ascribing the destruction
of Sybaris to morally corrosive luxury are late and of little historical value. More generally, the debilitating effects of
luxury cannot serve as an exemplum supporting the claim that Hellenistic writers tended to explain historical events
through moral causes; apparent evidence for this causal nexus is better assigned to Athenaeus than to the historians he
names. In view of these conclusions, a cautious reassessment of all Athenaeus’ testimony on fragmentary historians is
appropriate.

This is the abstract of Journal of Hellenic Studies 127 (2007) 38–60
THE TRYPHÊ OF THE SYBARITES:
A HISTORIOGRAPHICAL PROBLEM IN ATHENAEUS*
by R J Gorman and V Gorman

I downloaded this article so it must be freely available on the web. Despite the example not being Alexandrine it is as good to be aware of the methodological quirks of compilers like Athenaeus; and, Marcus is right he came from Naucratis. Read him critically on the web, alexander-sources.org is the easiest place to find the Alexander bits of a great many minor sources which saves alot of cash compared to the number of Loebs one would have to buy for, frankly, data of marginal value. Atticus is an excellent site too and has translations of the Marmor Parium and the Chronicle of the Romans as well as links to just about everything; Perseus is an excellent resource for looking at the greek but will sadly only search for terms found in LSJ so it does not recognise pezhetairoi, for example...I'm rambling