Rock of Aornus

[amyntoros]

Under the Pothos subheading Battles (I think) it says this about the rock of Aornus:"The story of the Indian rock had long been seen as a myth until sir Aurel Stein pointed out a possible location in 1926. This location, the hill of Pir-Sar in northern Pakistan, has been disputed by some historians. The question where the real rock of Aornus lies and what really happened there might never be fully solved."Does anyone know which particular historians have disputed Stein and what they say about the possible location of the rock?Amyntoros

[marcus]

Interesting question. I have to say that I can't recall reading a disagreement with Stein in any of the 'standard' books on Alexander - if there is one then I missed it. Although it's true that I have read that there *is* disagreement in other places.Unfortunately I don't have time at the moment to try and find out the answer - still filling in lots of forms - so someone else will have to come up with the answer ...ATBMarcus

[Taphoi]

There have been some challenges to Stein on Aornus as Pir-sar, e.g. G. Tucci (East & West 27 (1977) 52-5)and P. H. L. Eggermont (OLP 15 (1984) 191-200, tentatively endorsed by E. Badian, CQ 37 (1987) 117 note 1). They have argued for Mt. Ilam, immediately to the south of Bazira and Ora. However, Bosworth, Michael Wood and others think that Aurel Stein's case remains very strong (and I think I agree with them).Best wishes,Andrew

[nick]

Hi Linda ---Thanks Michael for pointing out the debate. I wrote that line on pothos.org more than five years ago, and couldn't recall by heart which historians objected Stein's claim.However, am I correct when I assume that I am one of the few pothos members who has actually seen and climbed (two days up, one down) Pir Sar (back in 1999). Well, I must admit climbing Pir Sar nowadays really made me wonder about the correctness of Stein's claim. Reading the sources gave me the impression that Pir Sar was a natural fortress with steep cliffs. That is not what the mountain looks like. I would say that this mountain is a tough place to conquer if you need to do that, but I can't see that it has the special features that are suggested in the sources.It remains an enigma for me.Regards ---Nick

[amyntoros]

Hello Nick,Thanks for this (and Andrew also). My curiosity about Aornus was aroused, strangely enough, because of Philostratus. I know he seems to be either discredited or ignored by all historians, but I've been very curious to find out if there could be any truth in the details he gives of Alexander in India. I can't see why he shouldn't have used as a source someone who had actually visited the country and recorded what the natives told him, rather than have completely invented everything he tells in The Life of Apollonius. The Rock of Aornus seemed like a good place to start as he includes information on the terrain:"2.10. Damis says that he did not see the rock called the "Birdless" (Aornus), which is not far distant from Nysa, because this lay off their road, and their guide feared to diverge from the direct path. But he says he heard that it had been captured by Alexander and was called "Birdless," not because it rises 9,000 feet, for the sacred birds fly higher than that; but because on the summit of the rock there is, they say, a cleft which draws into itself the birds which fly over it, as we may see at Athens also in the vestibule of the Parthenon, and in several places in Phrygia and Lydia. And this is the reason why the rock was called and actually is "Birdless."I've been told that Stein's identification of Aornus is thought irrefutable by the most respected scholars, and as Pir Sar doesn't have the cleft described above then Philostratus is proven to be discredited here. Now if Pir Sir, as you say, doesn't have other topographical features as described in the accepted sources, then perhaps there is some truth to Philostratus after all. Of course, I won't ever know for sure . . . :-)Best regards,Amyntoros

[nick]

Hi Linda ---Thanks! I would be happy to bet my money on Philostratus here. My climb in Pakistan never convinced me I was scaling a mountain fortress. At least it seems that Philostratus was discredited far too easily.Thanks!Nick