Artabazus, Parmenion, & Barsine...The Perfect Persian Plant

[spitamenes]

and maybe he wanted him even to be his successor.

I see no reason to believe otherwise. Keeping the boy in a reletively safe environment would solidify that theory as well.

[artemisia]

Arrian mentions describing the wedding of Susa only the highest ranking persian brides. After Dareios', Oxyatros' and Atropates' daughters come two sisters and the daughter of Barsine. Therefore she stands still in the highest esteem in the eyes of the king, and we can suppose, that she came herself to the wedding bringing her daughter and the little boy, who maybe on this occasion got his name Herakles and was acknowledged as heir to the throne.
The generals didn't want Herakles as their next king and blamed him a bastard, because Nearchos would have been the regent as nearest makedonian relative and custodian of him.

[marcus]

Arrian mentions describing the wedding of Susa only the highest ranking persian brides. After Dareios', Oxyatros' and Atropates' daughters come two sisters and the daughter of Barsine. Therefore she stands still in the highest esteem in the eyes of the king, and we can suppose, that she came herself to the wedding bringing her daughter and the little boy, who maybe on this occasion got his name Herakles and was acknowledged as heir to the throne.
The generals didn't want Herakles as their next king and blamed him a bastard, because Nearchos would have been the regent as nearest makedonian relative and custodian of him.

We might suppose that Barsine came to Susa, but we certainly can't say for sure. I'm not convinced that the attendance of the mother of one of the brides, even one of high rank, would have been of great importance, especially at such a politically motivated wedding.

Of course, we don't know where Barsine's daughter had been up to this point. We should assume that she was also taken at Damascus, because Memnon had sent his entire family to Darius (which I would assume would mean the children of his brother, as well), so where Barsine was we would expect her daughter to be, as well. I am thinking that the daughter might not have remained with Barsine, though, but would have been installed at Susa in 331/330BC, along with Sisygambis and her daughters; so there would be no real reason for Barsine to join them for the wedding.

We have no way of knowing, however.

ATB

[spitamenes]

Did Alexander still consider Memnon a threat at the time of the latters unexpected death? Or was he pretty much pacified by that time?

[marcus]

Did Alexander still consider Memnon a threat at the time of the latters unexpected death? Or was he pretty much pacified by that time?

Oh, Memnon was a threat all right - he was busy taking over all the Aegean islands, which would cause a major problem for A's lines of communication, and cut him off from Greece. Memnon's death didn't remove the threat, as he was succeeded by new, Persian admirals; but it did turn the tide in the Macedonians' favour, eventually.

ATB

[spitamenes]

Did Alexander still consider Memnon a threat at the time of the latters unexpected death? Or was he pretty much pacified by that time?

Oh, Memnon was a threat all right - he was busy taking over all the Aegean islands, which would cause a major problem for A's lines of communication, and cut him off from Greece. Memnon's death didn't remove the threat, as he was succeeded by new, Persian admirals; but it did turn the tide in the Macedonians' favour, eventually.

ATB

Do we know from the sources when Barsine was given to, or taken by Darius? Was she collateral for Memnons loyalty or could she have been collateral for the defeat of Alexander?

[marcus]

Do we know from the sources when Barsine was given to, or taken by Darius? Was she collateral for Memnons loyalty or could she have been collateral for the defeat of Alexander?

Diodorus 17.23.4-6

[4] After the capture of Miletus, the bulk of the Persians and mercenaries, as well as the most enterprising of the commanders, concentrated their forces at Halicarnassus. This was the largest city in Caria, containing the palace of the kings of the Carians, and was well provided with interior fortresses. [5] About the same time Memnon sent his wife and children to Dareius, because he calculated that leaving them in the king's care was a good way to ensure their safety, while at the same time the king, now that he had good hostages, would be more willing to entrust Memnon with the supreme command. And so it turned out. [6] For Dareius straightway sent letters to those who dwelt next the sea, directing them one and all to take orders from Memnon. Accordingly, having assumed the supreme command, he made all the necessary dispositions for a siege in the city of the Halicarnassians.

So, basically, when Alexander was travelling from Miletus to Halicarnassus.

ATB

[spitamenes]

Do we know from the sources when Barsine was given to, or taken by Darius? Was she collateral for Memnons loyalty or could she have been collateral for the defeat of Alexander?

Diodorus 17.23.4-6

[4] After the capture of Miletus, the bulk of the Persians and mercenaries, as well as the most enterprising of the commanders, concentrated their forces at Halicarnassus. This was the largest city in Caria, containing the palace of the kings of the Carians, and was well provided with interior fortresses. [5] About the same time Memnon sent his wife and children to Dareius, because he calculated that leaving them in the king's care was a good way to ensure their safety, while at the same time the king, now that he had good hostages, would be more willing to entrust Memnon with the supreme command. And so it turned out. [6] For Dareius straightway sent letters to those who dwelt next the sea, directing them one and all to take orders from Memnon. Accordingly, having assumed the supreme command, he made all the necessary dispositions for a siege in the city of the Halicarnassians.

So, basically, when Alexander was travelling from Miletus to Halicarnassus.

ATB

Thank you kind sir, im asking because I had this whole little theory going on about Memnon and Barsine,.. but that went south as soon as I read the Diodorus quote.

[marcus]

Do we know from the sources when Barsine was given to, or taken by Darius? Was she collateral for Memnons loyalty or could she have been collateral for the defeat of Alexander?

Diodorus 17.23.4-6

[4] After the capture of Miletus, the bulk of the Persians and mercenaries, as well as the most enterprising of the commanders, concentrated their forces at Halicarnassus. This was the largest city in Caria, containing the palace of the kings of the Carians, and was well provided with interior fortresses. [5] About the same time Memnon sent his wife and children to Dareius, because he calculated that leaving them in the king's care was a good way to ensure their safety, while at the same time the king, now that he had good hostages, would be more willing to entrust Memnon with the supreme command. And so it turned out. [6] For Dareius straightway sent letters to those who dwelt next the sea, directing them one and all to take orders from Memnon. Accordingly, having assumed the supreme command, he made all the necessary dispositions for a siege in the city of the Halicarnassians.

So, basically, when Alexander was travelling from Miletus to Halicarnassus.

ATB

Thank you kind sir, im asking because I had this whole little theory going on about Memnon and Barsine,.. but that went south as soon as I read the Diodorus quote.

And this also makes it rather unlikely that Barsine would be spying on Alexander for the Persians ... if one wants to argue it that way ... but I rather fancy we could end up repeating the last four pages of roundabout argument ...

ATB