The Relationship of Alexander and Hephaestion

Discuss Alexander's generals, wives, lovers, family and enemies

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What was Alexander and Hephaestion's relationship?

Very close friends; like brothers.
5
15%
Intimate friends who once enjoyed relations in their youth
12
35%
Lovers for their entire lives (disregard modern labels)
17
50%
 
Total votes: 34

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How can Roxane have been "inconsequential"?

Post by marcus »

Hi, Semiramis (always loved your choice of identity there ... unless it really is your name! :shock: )
Semiramis wrote:Plutarch was describing Alexander falling in love with an inconsequential woman, with whom the attachment would have been based mostly on her beauty after a fleeting encounter, which led to a very important marriage. It’s part of a simple narrative.
I keep getting on my high horse about this one, but how can Roxane have been "inconsequential" if the resulting nuptials were "very important"?

I have to say that I am more and more coming to the conclusion that Alexander must have decided that he should marry himself out of the quagmire of Sogdia, and sent his agents around to find out who was important enough, with a nubile daughter, for him to forge a marriage alliance with. While I in no way deny that he might have fallen in love with Roxane, and that she was indeed most beautiful, I cannot believe that it was happy coincidence ...

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Post by Paralus »

athenas owl wrote: My point there that the writer, Arrian or Plutarch (I post here from memory..sadly my books are on another floor) were looking back several centuries from their time and being anachronistic. The Macedonia they knew was not the Macedonia of Alexander's time.
Arrian. And whereas he might be making a point himself, it is clear that he is following a source in so making the point. Whoever he is using has noted this and Arrian has noted same. I do not think it has much to do with any anachronistic view.

I shall have to find the description (Xenophon I think) wherein this type of behaviour - of the "barbarians" - is remarked upon. The gist is that the Persians sit up all night - not just a bloody good session over the feast - but all night drinking and carousing. Aparrently this is the habit now being pursued by Alexander. The "innovation".
athenas owl wrote:As for marching across the Hellespont, there were Indian soldiers in the army of Xerxes that did exactly that and fought at Gaugamela as well.
Yes, indeed they did if we might believe Herodotus. He gives a league of nations as the Persian army - based, seemingly, on his "satrapal list". It is not certain they were there. Even so, were they there, the comparison is about as cogent as claiming that the Agrianes crossed the Hellespont and invaded India.

Just exactly who the 'Indians' were at Gaugamela is uncertain. Most likely from nearest region to Parapamisadae and the Hindu Kush. Whatever they were they were token (15 elephants from memory - though they take no part) and indicate that the Achaemenids had long lost any direct control over India.

The Indians, I'd suggest, had been running their own affairs for some time now. Cut off, one might even say, from events in the greater Achaemenid empire and the west. That Taxilies, Porus, the other Porus, Musicanus, et, al were all running their own kindoms (and at war occasionally with each other) when the Agrianes invaded confirms this.
Last edited by Paralus on Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Semiramis »

Hi Marcus,

Hehe.. no.. Semiramis isn't really my name. Ironic choice for one of the most anti-empire posters here huh? :lol:

The marriage with Roxane is important because it's a marriage! :) Alexander's first, and giving him a chance to produce an heir. Something that almost happened before the miscarriage and after he died. So, if Plutarch was discussing the marriage, he would have to discuss the motivations for the marriage, where the word love crops up. Whereas for Hephaistion, the narrative doesn't run that way, which is why you wouldn't expect any specific mention of a "love match" with Hephaistion.

As for whether marrying Roxane was a romantic or political decision, Roxane isn't introduced as someone important and neither is her father. Curtius describes her as dinner entertainment. Pedigree was important in the ancient world. Yet Oxyartes isn't described with any important titles etc by any of the writers, despite being Alexander's father-in-law.

The way Plutarch describes the motivations for this marriage - Alexander was 1. in love and at the same time 2. it aided his mission. Roxane's father obviously joined Alexander's camp after the marriage, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was the main reason for the marriage.

Of course, it may have been purely or partly a political decision on Alexander's part. But I don't see the sources as leaving us with much solid evidence on that. There is an insistence on beauty and love in this case, whereas the other two marriages are not romanticized in any way. If it was a political decision to get Alexander out of some Afghan quagmire, perhaps the story-tellers felt that telling the truth about this marriage as a "rescue package" would take away from his glory. In which case, rosy verses about love and beauty would crop up.

Now, call me a sucker but the way I see it – it’s not entirely impossible that a young man in his 20s falls in love with a beautiful woman and decides to honour her with marriage. If it helps his political cause, all the better. Historians analyze and find logical causes for every decision, but even Alexander, the ultimate strategist, did some things purely for emotional reasons. Take for example, forgiving Harpolas or killing the doctor after Hephaistion's death.

It's up to you Marcus (and others in this camp) to show me that Alexander benefited a great deal from this marriage, and I'm happy to change my mind. I don't feel any particular need to believe the romantic version of the story. It just seems the most parsimonious version within the limitation of the sources. :)

You're right, Marcus, that the multi-choice options kind of limit one's thinking. But for either Hephaistion or Roxane, my most honest answer would be – there is no way of knowing. And how boring would that be? :)
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Post by marcus »

Semiramis wrote:Hi Marcus,

Hehe.. no.. Semiramis isn't really my name. Ironic choice for one of the most anti-empire posters here huh? :lol:

The marriage with Roxane is important because it's a marriage! :) Alexander's first, and giving him a chance to produce an heir. Something that almost happened before the miscarriage and after he died. So, if Plutarch was discussing the marriage, he would have to discuss the motivations for the marriage, where the word love crops up. Whereas for Hephaistion, the narrative doesn't run that way, which is why you wouldn't expect any specific mention of a "love match" with Hephaistion.

As for whether marrying Roxane was a romantic or political decision, Roxane isn't introduced as someone important and neither is her father. Curtius describes her as dinner entertainment. Pedigree was important in the ancient world. Yet Oxyartes isn't described with any important titles etc by any of the writers, despite being Alexander's father-in-law.

The way Plutarch describes the motivations for this marriage - Alexander was 1. in love and at the same time 2. it aided his mission. Roxane's father obviously joined Alexander's camp after the marriage, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was the main reason for the marriage.

Of course, it may have been purely or partly a political decision on Alexander's part. But I don't see the sources as leaving us with much solid evidence on that. There is an insistence on beauty and love in this case, whereas the other two marriages are not romanticized in any way. If it was a political decision to get Alexander out of some Afghan quagmire, perhaps the story-tellers felt that telling the truth about this marriage as a "rescue package" would take away from his glory. In which case, rosy verses about love and beauty would crop up.

Now, call me a sucker but the way I see it – it’s not entirely impossible that a young man in his 20s falls in love with a beautiful woman and decides to honour her with marriage. If it helps his political cause, all the better. Historians analyze and find logical causes for every decision, but even Alexander, the ultimate strategist, did some things purely for emotional reasons. Take for example, forgiving Harpolas or killing the doctor after Hephaistion's death.

It's up to you Marcus (and others in this camp) to show me that Alexander benefited a great deal from this marriage, and I'm happy to change my mind. I don't feel any particular need to believe the romantic version of the story. It just seems the most parsimonious version within the limitation of the sources. :)

You're right, Marcus, that the multi-choice options kind of limit one's thinking. But for either Hephaistion or Roxane, my most honest answer would be – there is no way of knowing. And how boring would that be? :)
Oh, don't get me wrong - I'm happy to accept that Alexander really was in love with her. I'm also happy to accept that his initial motivation for marrying her was that he was in love with her - I was of course hypothesising and there is, indeed, no evidence to suggest that it was a premeditated, calculated decision.

However, Oxyartes is credited as being someone of importance - he is described as being such, and Alexander used him to help bring Sisimithres (I think it was) "into the fold". I also don't buy that Roxane's marriage was important "because it was a marriage" and because it was his first - it was important because it helped him settle affairs in Sogdia and move on towards India. It became more important when she became pregnant. So the marriage was important, and Oxyartes was by no means a non-entity. Roxane was therefore important because she was a precious commodity that Oxyartes had, that he could use to gain alliances and power. She might not have been important as an individual, but she was nonetheless important! :lol:

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Post by Semiramis »

athenas owl wrote:Further south Musicanus and the Brahmins. I wonder if the the cultural coup the Brahmins had been complete by Alexander's time and some of the conflicts were still within that struggle for dominance between them and the Kshatriyas and even religion (how prominent was Buddhism in the NW before Asoka? and wasn;t Buddha himslef from the Kshatriyas?). The warrior caste may have found Alexander more inviting than rule by the priests.

Reducing complex internal rivalries and how they played to "Alexander vs, the Indians" is again in some ways demeaning to the Indians.
I would think it was likely that Musicanus, being the ruler, would have been from the Khatriya caste himself. The Brahmins as the priestly class were officially revered by the Khatriyas in return for Brahmins legitimizing their rule. Both the Brahmins and Khatriyas being Hindu, it would be difficult to characterize any clash of interests as a religious conflict. What is very clear is that both Musicanus and the Brahmins of his city only submitted to Alexander out of sheer terror following his earlier massacres. Once he was out of their city, they rebelled. Alexander returned to crucify Musicanus and the Brahmins and kill or sell all inhabitants to slavery. Now there may have been complex rivalries between the rulers and the priests etc., but in the case of the massacre in this city, they all managed to make a deadly enemy of Alexander.

As for some other cases such as Porus against the "bad" Porus and the two princes in Alexander's entourage, there were certainly some selfish interests at play on their part. Whether there were rivalries between neighbouring kings, conquerors that plied the same trade after Alexander or whether there were mercenaries from these parts in the Persian army or mercenaries willing to serve Alexander, I don't really see what difference any of that would make to any discussions about massacres of populations there.
athenas owl wrote:Should Alexander have invaded India or even crossed the Hellespont? Should the Achaemenids have crossed the Hellespont and invaded India? Should Kyrus have begun his empire building, why don't we hear more about the brave Tomyris fighting the bellicose Kyrus? Should any ancient conqueror have stayed home and been a good boy by our modern standards? Well yes, certainly...by our modern standards. Or those of Roman era writers using Alexander as a thinly disguised jab at their own crazed rulers. Or propaganda in the power struggles of the Diadochi. Or even bitter Athenian writers wearing "Remember Callisthenes" t-shirts... :P I just want to truth of it. In all it's complexity...of course our histories of Alexander are like Rashomon... :)
This reminds me of an article in the German newspaper Das Spiegel about Cyrus. I'm thoroughly amused at the way the author is smarting at Cyrus' glorification as a "champion of human rights" by respectable parties like the UN or Iranian Nobel Laureates. He also delves into some of the modern politics behind this type of... rebranding... shall we call it? :)

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 27,00.html
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Post by Paralus »

Semiramis wrote: What is very clear is that both Musicanus and the Brahmins of his city only submitted to Alexander out of sheer terror following his earlier massacres. Once he was out of their city, they rebelled. Alexander returned to crucify Musicanus and the Brahmins and kill or sell all inhabitants to slavery. Now there may have been complex rivalries between the rulers and the priests etc., but in the case of the massacre in this city, they all managed to make a deadly enemy of Alexander.
Can I claim to have written that?? No, not at all. Read and learn.
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Back to Hephaistion . . .

Post by amyntoros »

I have recently begun to read James Davidson's The Greeks and Greek Love and I took a quick look ahead to his discussion of Alexander. As far as Davidson is concerned, I think he'd vote for option number 3 with the qualification that the relationship may or may not have involved sex! This is a huge book - 516 pages plus another 118 for notes, bibliography, index, etc - and although I could probably explain the above to you, I think I ought to wait a while longer. I'm only up to page 42 and so far everything has been about the different meanings and use of words (in the ancient sources) such as agape, pothos, himeros, eros, philia, epithumia, and charis. So if anyone is in a hurry to know more, I reckon you'll have to buy or borrow the book to get the full picture. :wink:

What I will quote today though is a paragraph which follows a description of Hephaistion's accomplishments.
(Page 378) It seems to me that all the modern histories of Alexander fail in one key respect, that they trivialize his Second, distracted by the question of whether and to what extent Hephaestion was Alexander's boyfriend, and caught up in the romance of war. Hephaestion may have been no great warrior, but Alexander was warrior enough. Hephaestion played a different and no less important role as Alexander's perfect foil and complement. Looking at what is ascribed to Hephaestion, we find that he was constantly at work, from the time that the 'Old Guard', Parmenion and Philotas, met their end, and probably from well before. He dealt with complex task of organization and administration, and he seems to have achieved them, over and over again and in good time. We really should look at Alexander's conquests as a team effort, the work of Alexander and Hephaestion too. Hephaestion is a serious man in the histories of Alexander. He needs to be taken more seriously.
Oh, I know that there are Pothosians who will want to comment on this! :lol: :lol:

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Re: Back to Hephaistion . . .

Post by Fiona »

amyntoros wrote:
(Page 378) It seems to me that all the modern histories of Alexander fail in one key respect, that they trivialize his Second, distracted by the question of whether and to what extent Hephaestion was Alexander's boyfriend, and caught up in the romance of war. Hephaestion may have been no great warrior, but Alexander was warrior enough. Hephaestion played a different and no less important role as Alexander's perfect foil and complement. Looking at what is ascribed to Hephaestion, we find that he was constantly at work, from the time that the 'Old Guard', Parmenion and Philotas, met their end, and probably from well before. He dealt with complex task of organization and administration, and he seems to have achieved them, over and over again and in good time. We really should look at Alexander's conquests as a team effort, the work of Alexander and Hephaestion too. Hephaestion is a serious man in the histories of Alexander. He needs to be taken more seriously.
Oh, I know that there are Pothosians who will want to comment on this! :lol: :lol:

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Damning with faint praise again.
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Re: Back to Hephaistion . . .

Post by amyntoros »

Fiona wrote:Damning with faint praise again.
You think that saying Alexander and Hephaistion were a conquering team is faint praise? Interesting. :) I thought otherwise. For instance, there are those who say that Alexander could not have achieved as much as he did (or as easily as he did) without his well-trained Macedonian army and coterie of Friends/advisers, but even they do not usually view the conquest as a team effort given that Alexander was well and truly in command. And looking at debate here in general I would say that, no matter what the subject, it is common to give the credit (or the blame) to Alexander and Alexander alone. However, Davidson, says specifically that "We really should look at Alexander's conquests as a team effort, the work of Alexander and Hephaestion too." IMO, that's as much to say that Alexander couldn't have done it without Hephaistion! I thought this to be a rather controversial statement given the usual treatment of Hephaistion in academia.

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Re: Back to Hephaistion . . .

Post by athenas owl »

amyntoros wrote:
Fiona wrote:Damning with faint praise again.
You think that saying Alexander and Hephaistion were a conquering team is faint praise? Interesting. :) I thought otherwise. For instance, there are those who say that Alexander could not have achieved as much as he did (or as easily as he did) without his well-trained Macedonian army and coterie of Friends/advisers, but even they do not usually view the conquest as a team effort given that Alexander was well and truly in command. And looking at debate here in general I would say that, no matter what the subject, it is common to give the credit (or the blame) to Alexander and Alexander alone. However, Davidson, says specifically that "We really should look at Alexander's conquests as a team effort, the work of Alexander and Hephaestion too." IMO, that's as much to say that Alexander couldn't have done it without Hephaistion! I thought this to be a rather controversial statement given the usual treatment of Hephaistion in academia.

Best regards,
"The usual treatment"...I call it the "brawny bimbo" effect. I find it quite inexplicable really, that a lot of modern scholars...well, Heckel for example.

There was no good reason for the successors to tell Hephaistion's story. The negative bits we do have (his fights with Eumenes and Craterus, etc..we don't know what they were about, especially with Craterus..I'd love to know..and Craterus had the good sense to die in battle before his own ambitions could be clearly seen...though his dressing just like Alexander sans the diadem might have been a clue) were rather nicely traced, I think, by Jeanne Reames. Lesser lights that would have been impacted by Hephaistion's power and access to Alexander.

Yet, even with that, as ATG and Hephaistion were both dead...I think it's pretty remarkable that Hephaistion was not given the same treatment that Perdiccas was by Ptolemy, when he could no longer defend himself. Or the Eumenes "camp" in their view of Peucestas being "cowardly" at Gabiene.

Even the Gedrosian disaster, I think, is viewed mainly in view of Nearchus' CYA telling of it. So between Ptolemy's silence through Arrian and Nearchus' "it wasn't my fault"...well you get the picture.

Alexander did make Hephaistioin chilliarch and give him the biggest darn send off ever. Even early in the campaign, didn't Demosthenes send a representative to Hephaistion to intercede? Little things are left, like the seer who was asked by his brother about Alexander AND Hephaistion.

I don't know who Hephaistion was (or Alexander for that matter), and I did cringe when Renault called him brilliant, because there we don't know either...but the modern academic dismissal of him as the "brawny bimbo" is really perplexing.
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Re: Back to Hephaistion . . .

Post by Fiona »

amyntoros wrote:
Fiona wrote:Damning with faint praise again.
You think that saying Alexander and Hephaistion were a conquering team is faint praise? Interesting. :) I thought otherwise. For instance, there are those who say that Alexander could not have achieved as much as he did (or as easily as he did) without his well-trained Macedonian army and coterie of Friends/advisers, but even they do not usually view the conquest as a team effort given that Alexander was well and truly in command. And looking at debate here in general I would say that, no matter what the subject, it is common to give the credit (or the blame) to Alexander and Alexander alone. However, Davidson, says specifically that "We really should look at Alexander's conquests as a team effort, the work of Alexander and Hephaestion too." IMO, that's as much to say that Alexander couldn't have done it without Hephaistion! I thought this to be a rather controversial statement given the usual treatment of Hephaistion in academia.
Hi Amyntoros, sorry I only had time for a one-liner this morning. First of all, let me say that I've read Davidson's book - only just finished it, it took me ages! - and I think it's a great read. I think he's really careful not to generalise, and always says exactly what he's talking about. I think one thing comes through loud and clear, and that's that human beings in the ancient world were every bit as complex and interesting as they are today. You simply can't pin them down - just as now, their tastes and motives were affected by so many things, personal inclination, duty, custom, fashion, upbringing, social class, and so on, and so on. Great book, loved it. I hope that it might see off for good the rather lazy shorthand one so often sees (not here, I hasten to add) of something like, "in ancient Greece it was the custom to..blah, blah" as if the fashion in a certain city in a certain era held good for the entire Greek world, throughout its history, and for all social classes.
Anyway, back to Hephaistion, which is always nice - yes, I do think it's faint praise to say he may not have been much of a warrior. That's just trotting out Heckel's view of his military abilities, though to be fair, Davidson's brief precluded an exhaustive look at that. But honestly, if he just wanted to mention Hephaistion's career in passing, he'd have got a fairer picture from Wikipedia.
But when he says "We really should look at Alexander's conquests as a team effort, the work of Alexander and Hephaestion too." I would be first in the queue to shake his hand. To me (and others, I know) this is so basic, it's easy to forget that not everyone holds this view.
The evidence for holding such a view is not found exclusively in the sources. But neither is it (as some may suspect!) entirely romantic wishful thinking, or gut instinct. Rather it comes from close observation of one immutable thing, one thing we can rely on when texts don't give us the full picture - human nature.
Briefly, the argument would go something like this - if you allow that the sources give evidence that Alexander and Hephaistion were closer than brothers - soulmates is the preferred term - then it follows that they were a team, and that their achievements were the work of both of them. Soulmates always work together, and complement each other.
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Post by the_accursed »

Myself I think that, as usual, it's only the credit for the things that worked that people feel need to be distributed. But what about the Gedrosian disaster? Alexander's “orientalisation"? Alexander murdering Parmenion and Philotas? Not to mention Alexander's complete failure to stabilize the empire? Surely Hephaestion, then, must also have been partly responsible for these and the many other of "Alexander's" mistakes?

Still, regarding the claim that Alexander could not have conquered Persia without Hephaestion, it at least seems to me like a step in the right direction. Considering that Alexander's attempt at building an empire was a rather gigantic failure, what does it say about him and his "arete" that he failed in spite of having had Philip and Olympias as parents, Hephaestion as best friend (and, apparently, "soul mate"), Aristotle as teacher, the best army in the world and and countless of world class generals (such as Parmenion and Craterus)?

Doesn't it indicate that he was a rather less than capable person, ultimately rather more a Arrhidaeus than a Philip II?
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Post by athenas owl »

the_accursed wrote:Myself I think that, as usual, it's only the credit for the things that worked that people feel need to be distributed. But what about the Gedrosian disaster? Alexander's “orientalisation"? Alexander murdering Parmenion and Philotas? Not to mention Alexander's complete failure to stabilize the empire? Surely Hephaestion, then, must also have been partly responsible for these and the many other of "Alexander's" mistakes?

Still, regarding the claim that Alexander could not have conquered Persia without Hephaestion, it at least seems to me like a step in the right direction. Considering that Alexander's attempt at building an empire was a rather gigantic failure, what does it say about him and his "arete" that he failed in spite of having had Philip and Olympias as parents, Hephaestion as best friend (and, apparently, "soul mate"), Aristotle as teacher, the best army in the world and and countless of world class generals (such as Parmenion and Craterus)?

Doesn't it indicate that he was a rather less than capable person, ultimately rather more a Arrhidaeus than a Philip II?
How many years did it take Philip to "stabilise" just the Balkan Peninsula? Over 20, including some serious missteps. granted he also spent that time transforming Macedonian society (towards,I think, a more oriental form) and the military.

This is not to glorify Alexander, but his chief failure was dying, because we will never know if the empire would have stabilised, as much as any can. They only have a certain life span.. Were Parmenion and Craterus any more capable than Alexander? Wasn't it Parmenion's troops that were cornered in the Troad before Alexander came over with themain army. What great victory did Craterus achieve on his own? Just asking that...I do believe they were very competent men. Alexander, and I think most people realise this, was fortunate that he had good people. Is there any serious person that thinks otherwise?

As for the failure of "orientalising". I think the failure lies with his troops and followers that lacked the imagination to see how it would have been beneficial to empire and hence to themselves. (Again, not saying that empire is a good thing, in the modern world). Though considering how quickly oriental the Diadochi monarchies became and then the Roman and later European ones as well...I think that it was the "orientalising" that won out in the end.

But I realise that you think Alexander an incompetent..certainly by comparing him to Arrhidaeus...I'm sorry, that is just nonsense.
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Re: Back to Hephaistion . . .

Post by Paralus »

I’m well aware of the “anti-Hephaestion” theme that is attributed to Heckel. Whereas, in the offending chapter, Heckel might make somewhat too much of Hephaestion’s conniving to advance himself (he was not alone), that does not detract from his assessment of his military abilities.

To me the sources paint an Hephaestion well suited to the administrative and logistical tasks to which Alexander so evidently assigned him. Whilst he is given commands (and I’m in no position to go look through them over lunch at the office) they were almost always ancillary to major operations. Mopping up is a term that comes to mind. It is Craterus, Coenus and Perdiccas that seem to bear the sharp end of the fighting. Hephaestion (and sometimes Perdiccas) share in the synoecisms and bridge building.

Whilst I’m not about to argue the facts of Hephaestion’s command of one half of the Companion Cavalry, I do find it odd that – from memory – Hephaestion’s name only occurs once at the Hydaspes; then only in terms of his “brigade” or some such. He was, by now, the senior cavalry commander yet he, himself, rates no mention. Ditto the war in Bactria and Sogdia where he is rarely mentioned. Where he is mentioned is in association with synoecisms, bridge building, escorting of prisoners and logistics such as the organising of supplies. The conclusion seems inescapable: his command abilities – whatever they were – were well bettered by his administrative and organisational abilities.
athenas owl wrote:...I think it's pretty remarkable that Hephaistion was not given the same treatment that Perdiccas was by Ptolemy, when he could no longer defend himself. Or the Eumenes "camp" in their view of Peucestas being "cowardly" at Gabiene.
He may not have been as it was unnecessary. He was not a rival for power in the utter power vacuum created by Alexander’s death. All in all that might well have been a good thing. Perdiccas, with respect to Ptolemy, demonstrably was. There was little need of the effort.

The “cowardly” Peucestas at Gabiene is a creature of Plutarch. This derives from a source tradition vehemently hostile to Peucestas and could possibly be Hieronymus. It may be Duris of Samos. From memory Diodorus does not lay the coward tag at Peucestas door: simply letting his actions hang until addressed by the angry Argyraspids.

It needs to be born in mind that Peucestas was involved in an ongoing tussle with Eumenes over the command of the satrapal coalition and, feasting and feting of the army by Peucestas aside, the Macedonians – for which read the Argyraspids – chose Eumenes. Case, almost, closed.

Plutarch is at pains to paint the satraps – including Antigenes which is rather difficult to sustain – as waiting to deliver Eumenes up at any propitious moment. Indeed Peucestas proposes that the coalition retreat prior to Gabiene and, essentially, fight a guerilla war protecting their own domains. He even goes so far as to claim that the army refused its general’s orders and decamped into winter quarters of their own choosing through insolence and lack of discipline. This, like Peucestas’ “cowardice”, is all melodrama of the highest order and needs to be taken with a pound of that salt dust which caked the battlefield at Gabiene.

It seems rather odd that the man who leapt into an Indian village – near alone – to protect Alexander would blanche at facing an army that had recently been beaten in the field (Antigonus’ dodgy claiming of the “victory” aside) by the very forces he was a general of. Far more likely is the notion of an arrangement whereby these seditious satraps would parlay with Antigonus after, as was likely and did in fact happen, his infantry was once again destroyed on the field. A neatly timed betrayal of the Greek from Cardia might aid that plan. That the other satraps (Eudamus aside) decamped with him is telling.
athenas owl wrote:There was no good reason for the successors to tell Hephaistion's story. The negative bits we do have […] were rather nicely traced, I think, by Jeanne Reames. Lesser lights that would have been impacted by Hephaistion's power and access to Alexander.
For simplicity I’ve cut the bracketed description of Craterus who, by the way, I believe to have had rather more limited ambitions. I’m wondering if I understand that correctly; that the Diadochoi were “lesser lights”? Whilst Alexander lived Hephaestion enjoyed a privileged access. I don’t think that lessens the contribution of the others though, several of whom were also somatophylakes. After Alexander’s death, had Hephaestion survived, I believe he will have lived only long enough only to meet one of those lesser lights on the field of battle and be to run through rather as Eumenes, ostensibly, did to Neoptolemus. As I say, all in all likelyhood a good thing he did not survive to become a “successor”.
Paralus
Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους;
Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.

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athenas owl
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Post by athenas owl »

I agree about Peucestas, but thank you for typing it out for others... :wink: I have wondered if Peucestas and Eumenes already knew Olympias was dead by the time of Gabiene. I see to different years for that battle by scholars I respect 316 and 315. Peucestas certainly chafed under the wily Eumenes...I'm suprised he stayed as long as he did. But sadly, we only have the version of events from Eumenes' "camp".

By "lesser lights" I was thinking of Chares, Heironumyus, etc. ( and through him Eumenes' version of Hephaistion..not saying that Eumenes was a "lesser light" by any means...).

I simply don't know what Hephaistion's military abilites were...that they weren't mentioned very much at all does not mean that he was not competent. There was no reason to write down his accomplishments, as he and ATG were dead. All glory to the survivors, in their own versions of events. That being my point about Perdiccas. He didn't make it beyond a few years, but Ptolemy obviously did not care for him at all. Aside from the court functionaries and the very curious fight with Craterus, none of the "bigger lights" seem to have gone after Hephaistion. I just find it curious. I do think that he was possibly more capable in administration...hence his appointment as chilliarch. His own tales of glory are lost to us, because no one surviving (as far as we know anyway) cared to detail his career.

Craterus...I don't know. Assuming the costume of Alexander, sans the diadem and the huge sculpture at Delphi indicate something a little less than humble to me. Again here, an early death cut short whatever ambitions he had or didn't have...I don't doubt his loyalty to Alexnader, but after that..marrying one of Antipater's daughters (but then who didn't! :lol: ). I just don't assume anything.
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