Alexander IV

[Theseus]

I had started a topic on Alexander and Roxanne's son Alexander IV before the server went crazy . I searched and it must have been lost. While I was looking for information on Phillip's tomb I came across something that I had read about in a book and just now found online.
http://www.ancientworlds.net/aw/Article/486614
This urn was found in the tombs of Vergina and in it the remains of Alexander's son.
What a shame he wasn't able to show if he had his fathers ambitions or not.

[marcus]

This urn was found in the tombs of Vergina and in it the remains of Alexander's son.
What a shame he wasn't able to show if he had his fathers ambitions or not.

Or rather, some people have the theory that it was Alexander IV. There is no certainty about it.

ATB

[Taphoi]

Or rather, some people have the theory that it was Alexander IV. There is no certainty about it.

I agree that it's not certain that it's Alexander IV, but it is probable. The bones seem to be those of a young male aged circa 13 at death. The tomb is evidently royal and in the Macedonian royal necropolis and dates to the end of the 4th century BC. On this basis, there isn't really anyone it could be but Alexander IV.

IMHO the doubts over Andronikos' original identifications have been overplayed through media hype and the unfortunate deaths of both Andronikos and Hammond.

Best wishes,

Andrew

[Theseus]

Or rather, some people have the theory that it was Alexander IV. There is no certainty about it.

I agree that it's not certain that it's Alexander IV, but it is probable. The bones seem to be those of a young male aged circa 13 at death. The tomb is evidently royal and in the Macedonian royal necropolis and dates to the end of the 4th century BC. On this basis, there isn't really anyone it could be but Alexander IV.

IMHO the doubts over Andronikos' original identifications have been overplayed through media hype and the unfortunate deaths of both Andronikos and Hammond.

Best wishes,

Andrew

I agree Andrew, who else could it be? I have pondered this and can't come up with anyone else that would come close to fitting but Alexander IV. There is another link I have been trying desperately to find that has more in depth information regarding this, but it seems I forgot to add it to my favorites list. I will have to continue the hunt tomorrow.

[Vergina Sun]

I am also wondering who the tomb belonged to if not to Alexander IV. I have yet to see the tomb for myself, but The Museums of Macedonia say,

Last is the tomb of the prince, which is ascribed to Alexander IV, the son of Alexander the Great. It closely resembles Philip’s, though it is smaller and instead of half columns has two omphalia, or discs, with painted heads. The tomb had a painted frieze, nothing of which survives, however, owing to the technique used to paint it (fresco). The cinerary urn was a silver hydria, with a gold oak wreath placed around the neck. There were also weapons in the tomb, together with quantities of grave goods and vases and a wooden mortuary couch adorned with gold and ivory. The decoration of the couch is notable for a representation of Dionysos with a flute-player and a satyr. All the contents of the tomb are displayed in showcases in the open space in front of the tomb.

A very beautiful burial indeed. If you remember the link that discusses who else it could be, please post it. I would love to read it!

[Theseus]

Some info on Alexander IV, still looking for more info about the tomb.

Because Roxanne was pregnant when her husband died and the gender of the baby was unknown, there was dissension in the Macedonian army regarding the order of succession. While the infantry supported the baby's uncle, Philip III (who was both epileptic and illegitimate), the chiliarch, or vizier Perdiccas, commander of the elite Companion cavalry, persuaded them to wait in the hope that Roxana's unborn child would be male. The factions compromised, deciding that Perdiccas would rule the Empire as regent while Philip would reign, but only as a figurehead with no real power. If the child was male, then he would be king. Alexander IV was born in August, 323 BC.

After a severe regency, military failure in Egypt, and mutiny in the army, Perdiccas was assassinated by his senior officers in June 320 BC, after which Antipater was named as the new regent at the Partition of Triparadisus. He brought with him Roxanne and the two kings to Macedon and gave up the pretence of ruling Alexander's Empire, leaving former provinces in Egypt and Asia in control of the satraps (see diadochi). When Antipater died in 319 BC he left Polyperchon, a Macedonian general who had served under Philip II and Alexander the Great, as his successor, passing over his own son, Cassander.

Cassander allied himself with Ptolemy Soter, Antigonus and Eurydice, the ambitious wife of king Philip Arrhidaeus, and declared war upon the Regency. Polyperchon was allied with Eumenes and Olympias.

Although Polyperchon was successful at first, taking control of the Greek cities, his fleet was destroyed by Antigonus in 318 BC. When, after the battle, Cassander assumed full control of Macedon, Polyperchon was forced to flee to Epirus, followed by Roxana and the young Alexander. A few months later, Olympias was able to persuade her relative Aeacides of Epirus to invade Macedon with Polyperchon. When Olympias took the field, Eurydice's army refused to fight against the mother of Alexander and defected to Olympias, after which Polypercheron and Aeacides retook Macedon. Philip and Eurydice were captured and executed on December 25, 317 BC, leaving Alexander IV king, and Olympias in effective control, as she was his regent.

Cassander returned in the following year (316 BC), conquering Macedon once again. Olympias was immediately executed, while the king and his mother were taken prisoner and held in the citadel of Amphipolis under the supervision of Glaucias. When the general peace between Cassander, Antigonus, Ptolemy, and Lysimachus put an end to the Third Diadoch War in 311 BC, the peace treaty recognized Alexander IV's rights and explicitly stated that when he came of age he would succeed Cassander as ruler

Following the treaty, defenders of the Argead dynasty began to declare that Alexander IV should now exercise full power and that a regent was no longer needed. Cassander's response was definitive: to secure his rule, in 309 BC he commanded Glaucias to secretly assassinate the 13-year old Alexander IV and his mother. The orders were carried out, and they were both poisoned.

Of course the way Alexander IV and Roxanne were killed can be debated, but either way it seems Cassander was the culprit.

[Theseus]

This is from an Egyptian relief of Alexander IV it is now in the Louvre in Paris. This was with the picture:
Although in Babylonia and Egypt, people continued to date letters according to the regnal years of the boy-king Alexander IV, the main result of the treaty was that Roxane and the twelve year old Alexander were killed: neither Cassander, nor his enemies could allow the boy to live. According to Diodorus of Sicily, the executioner was a man named Glaucias.

[Theseus]

The picture states "probable tomb of Alexander IV"

http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Museu ... ginas.html

Last is the tomb of the prince, which is ascribed to Alexander IV, the son of Alexander the Great. It closely resembles Philip’s, though it is smaller and instead of half columns has two omphalia, or discs, with painted heads. The tomb had a painted frieze, nothing of which survives, however, owing to the technique used to paint it (fresco). The cinerary urn was a silver hydria, with a gold oak wreath placed around the neck. There were also weapons in the tomb, together with quantities of grave goods and vases and a wooden mortuary couch adorned with gold and ivory. The decoration of the couch is notable for a representation of Dionysos with a flute-player and a satyr. All the contents of the tomb are displayed in showcases in the open space in front of the tomb.

[ruthaki]

I visited the tombs when they were first open to the public. I had the good fortune of meeting one of the archaeologists in charge there. I already knew the history -- as I was writing about the child of Alexander and had done extensive research -- so I was fascinated by the funeray urn which apparantly contained the remains of a boy around 13 - 14 yrs (about the age Alex. IV was when he was murdered). I asked the archaeologist if they would do DNA testing on the remains in the urn with the bones that were supposedly Philips. He thought it an interesting question, but said that unfortunately the remains in the urn were too powdered or fragmented to take an accurate DNA from. He was quite certain though, given the time frame etc, that this was the remains of Alexander IV. He also told me that the reason why there hadn't been so much gold in the Prince's tomb as in the others was that at the time of Alex. IV's death a lot of the gold mines had been depleted but there was still a lot of silver.
Another interesting point: I have studied all the grave offerings from the prince's tomb and note that the greaves found in the tomb were likely that of an older youth or man. I questioned the archaeologist and he said they were not necessarily items belonging to the dead person, but were 'gifts' placed in the tomb. I wondered to myself if they might have been greaves worn by Alexander himself when he was a youth.
As a matter of fact, I have a photo of the silver funeray urn and the gold wreath right here on my screen saver!

[Theseus]

I visited the tombs when they were first open to the public. I had the good fortune of meeting one of the archaeologists in charge there. I already knew the history -- as I was writing about the child of Alexander and had done extensive research -- so I was fascinated by the funeray urn which apparantly contained the remains of a boy around 13 - 14 yrs (about the age Alex. IV was when he was murdered). I asked the archaeologist if they would do DNA testing on the remains in the urn with the bones that were supposedly Philips. He thought it an interesting question, but said that unfortunately the remains in the urn were too powdered or fragmented to take an accurate DNA from. He was quite certain though, given the time frame etc, that this was the remains of Alexander IV. He also told me that the reason why there hadn't been so much gold in the Prince's tomb as in the others was that at the time of Alex. IV's death a lot of the gold mines had been depleted but there was still a lot of silver.
Another interesting point: I have studied all the grave offerings from the prince's tomb and note that the greaves found in the tomb were likely that of an older youth or man. I questioned the archaeologist and he said they were not necessarily items belonging to the dead person, but were 'gifts' placed in the tomb. I wondered to myself if they might have been greaves worn by Alexander himself when he was a youth.
As a matter of fact, I have a photo of the silver funeray urn and the gold wreath right here on my screen saver!

Great information Ruthaki! Thanks for sharing. I have been researching Alexander IV but there doesn't seem to be too much information about him. I found your post very interesting. I would have been so excited to have talked with the archeologist you got to discuss this with.

[ruthaki]

when I first visited the tombs (before they were completed to the point they are today), after speaking at length with the archaeologist at the site, he directed me out to a small building nearby where they were working on restorations. He said to ask the man there to show me Eurydike. I did so and I got to see the statue of Philip's mother Eurydike, still in the crate before it even went on public display.

Re researching about Alexander IV. There is very little information at all. You can only speculate what kind of a life this unfortunate child had leading to his eventual death.
This is where the 'historical fiction' comes in. And I have tried to make him as believable and realistic as possible in my novel. (And by the way, in my novel, to differentiate between Alexander III I use his Persian name Iskander when being addressed by his mother and the Persian courtier who accompanies them and as "little Alexander" by the Macedonians.

[Theseus]

when I first visited the tombs (before they were completed to the point they are today), after speaking at length with the archaeologist at the site, he directed me out to a small building nearby where they were working on restorations. He said to ask the man there to show me Eurydike. I did so and I got to see the statue of Philip's mother Eurydike, still in the crate before it even went on public display.

Re researching about Alexander IV. There is very little information at all. You can only speculate what kind of a life this unfortunate child had leading to his eventual death.
This is where the 'historical fiction' comes in. And I have tried to make him as believable and realistic as possible in my novel. (And by the way, in my novel, to differentiate between Alexander III I use his Persian name Iskander when being addressed by his mother and the Persian courtier who accompanies them and as "little Alexander" by the Macedonians.

I am so jealous of you right now! You are so lucky to have been able to see that statue.
From what I have read Alexander IV's short live was not a stable one. He moved around a bit from protecor to protector until falling into Cassander's hands which was very unfortunate indeed. It would have been interesting to see what Alexander the Great's son could have done and if he carried some of his "Father's traits"

[azara]

Hi, Theseus!
A statue portraying Alexander IV may actually exist, although the attribution is still uncertain. Look at this site:
http://www.ville-agde.fr/mairie/patrimo ... ephebe.php
Here it is presented (only in French!) as an Alexander statue, but it has been observed (by Paolo Moreno of Rome University) that the person represented is a very young man indeed, apparently not older than 13-14, and that he wears the Macedon royal diadem, a thing Alexander never did at such an early age. The statue anyway is absolutely beautiful and reveals the hand of a great artist, possibly Lysippus or someone of his school, still active when Alexander IV met his fate. Unfortunately this masterpiece is little known: if only the French deigned to use some other indo-european languages!
Probably a thorough Google search, which I didn't have the time to do, could bring more photos and information.
All the best
Azara

[Theseus]

Hi, Theseus!
A statue portraying Alexander IV may actually exist, although the attribution is still uncertain. Look at this site:
http://www.ville-agde.fr/mairie/patrimo ... ephebe.php
Here it is presented (only in French!) as an Alexander statue, but it has been observed (by Paolo Moreno of Rome University) that the person represented is a very young man indeed, apparently not older than 13-14, and that he wears the Macedon royal diadem, a thing Alexander never did at such an early age. The statue anyway is absolutely beautiful and reveals the hand of a great artist, possibly Lysippus or someone of his school, still active when Alexander IV met his fate. Unfortunately this masterpiece is little known: if only the French deigned to use some other indo-european languages!
Probably a thorough Google search, which I didn't have the time to do, could bring more photos and information.
All the best
Azara

Hi Azara,
Thanks for the link! I have seen this before when I was researching Alexander IV, but it's nice to see it again and to be able to discuss it. I think the statue has a resemblance to Alexander the Great's statues. With the findings happening lately I hope that someone is able to uncover some of the secrets that have been kept for thousands of years. It would be nice to know more of Alexander IV's life and more of his Father's. The artist of this statue did a beautiful job on it. Thanks again for the link.

[aleksandros]

can we get dna sample from these bones or they ve become rock?