Mentor

[marcus]

Nope, that is a different version entirely! I am aware of Callisthenes having said it to at least 2 different people (unless my memory serves me very ill indeed).Thanks for this one - I was aware that other people *were* reported to have said it, but I couldn't remember who, and I certainly didn't have time to trawl through my references. I suspect your files of references are in slightly better shape than mine, anyway :-)ATBMarcus

[marcus]

Nope, that is a different version entirely! I am aware of Callisthenes having said it to at least 2 different people (unless my memory serves me very ill indeed).Thanks for this one - I was aware that other people *were* reported to have said it, but I couldn't remember who, and I certainly didn't have time to trawl through my references. I suspect your files of references are in slightly better shape than mine, anyway :-)ATBMarcus

[Paralus]

G'day Nicator/Marcus.Callisthenes GÇô I think GÇô did not quite comprehend just who (or what) it was he was dealing with. Reading the sources I get the impression that his overweening sense of self-importance clouded his better (or worse) judgement. I don't know whether that comes from his being Aristotle's nephew, being the all important official "court " historian or what. Whatever, given what had gone on about him, by the time of his judicial murder you'd have thought he'd seen enough to know better?I'm fairly certain that he did not actively plot against the king. I am just as certain that his rather large motor-mouth GÇô akin to talk-back radio on steroids and well provisioned with opinion GÇô was not always in close contact with the caution centre of his cerebral cortex. He may well have been more receptive to talk of life without Alexander than was deemed seemly GÇô or ultimately - sensible.Paralus

[Paralus]

G'day Nicator/Marcus.Callisthenes GÇô I think GÇô did not quite comprehend just who (or what) it was he was dealing with. Reading the sources I get the impression that his overweening sense of self-importance clouded his better (or worse) judgement. I don't know whether that comes from his being Aristotle's nephew, being the all important official "court " historian or what. Whatever, given what had gone on about him, by the time of his judicial murder you'd have thought he'd seen enough to know better?I'm fairly certain that he did not actively plot against the king. I am just as certain that his rather large motor-mouth GÇô akin to talk-back radio on steroids and well provisioned with opinion GÇô was not always in close contact with the caution centre of his cerebral cortex. He may well have been more receptive to talk of life without Alexander than was deemed seemly GÇô or ultimately - sensible.Paralus

[marcus]

Totally agree. Marcus

[marcus]

Totally agree. Marcus

[Nicator]

G'day back Paralus,
This was one of those sequences of events that provided an insight into Alexander's modus operandi at court and in dealing with his subordinates. I love the bit where Alexander lures Callisthenes into giving the speech of praise to the Macedonians, and then has him reverse himself to prove what a good Rhetorical Orator he is. Callisthenes, of course, can't refuse to take up the challenge and severely chastises the Macedonians, even finishing with a wicked left hook at Philip himself (in good times, even base men are endorsed). Only then does Alexander chime back in and point out how "It appears that Callisthenes speaks, not out of good orating skills, but rather in malice"...or something to that effect. Callisthenes is forced (or rather booed) to walk off the stage mumbling something from Euripides about Patroclus was a far better man than you...(gotta love Green's insight here) and it's a scored victory for Alexander. It seems clear to me, that by this time, the flames of animosity were well fed.later Nicator

[Nicator]

G'day back Paralus,
This was one of those sequences of events that provided an insight into Alexander's modus operandi at court and in dealing with his subordinates. I love the bit where Alexander lures Callisthenes into giving the speech of praise to the Macedonians, and then has him reverse himself to prove what a good Rhetorical Orator he is. Callisthenes, of course, can't refuse to take up the challenge and severely chastises the Macedonians, even finishing with a wicked left hook at Philip himself (in good times, even base men are endorsed). Only then does Alexander chime back in and point out how "It appears that Callisthenes speaks, not out of good orating skills, but rather in malice"...or something to that effect. Callisthenes is forced (or rather booed) to walk off the stage mumbling something from Euripides about Patroclus was a far better man than you...(gotta love Green's insight here) and it's a scored victory for Alexander. It seems clear to me, that by this time, the flames of animosity were well fed.later Nicator