Alexander's tomb and the biggest archaiological concealment.

[spitamenes]

You could be right Marcus. I'm going to thumb through Richard Stonemans Alexander the Great~ A Life in Legand. To see if I might have read about it in there. Arrian first came to mind, which is probably where your idea of a possible explaination comes into play for me. But I'm sure I've read that specific claim somewhere as well. Hope I can find it, that's one of those things that will be picking at me until I do.
Which brings me to another story, Alexanders army came across what appeared to be a river that at one point disappeared underground and reappeared a certain distance away. But to make sure they were connected, alexander had his men throw a couple horses into the inlet to see if they would appear on the other side. As they apperently did. Dead of course. Does anyone know what source this story came from? I've been skimming through them but can't seem to find it.

[amyntoros]

You could be right Marcus. I'm going to thumb through Richard Stonemans Alexander the Great~ A Life in Legand. To see if I might have read about it in there. Arrian first came to mind, which is probably where your idea of a possible explaination comes into play for me. But I'm sure I've read that specific claim somewhere as well. Hope I can find it, that's one of those things that will be picking at me until I do.
Which brings me to another story, Alexanders army came across what appeared to be a river that at one point disappeared underground and reappeared a certain distance away. But to make sure they were connected, alexander had his men throw a couple horses into the inlet to see if they would appear on the other side. As they apperently did. Dead of course. Does anyone know what source this story came from? I've been skimming through them but can't seem to find it.

I absolutely love Google Desktop for searching files!

Curtius 6.4[1] His words were received with great enthusiasm by the soldiers, who told him to lead them wherever he wished. [2] The king did not check their momentum, and two days later he was pressing ahead through Parthiene towards the Hyrcanian border. To protect Parthiene against a barbarian incursion, he had left Craterus behind with the troops that were under his command and the contingent led by Amyntas, to which were added 600 horse and as many archers. [3] He now gave Erigyius a small escort and told him to take the baggage by a route through the plains, while he himself took the phalanx and the cavalry, covering a distance of 150 stades before establishing a fortified camp in the valley leading into Hyrcania.

Here there is a dense, shady grove of tall trees, the valley's fertile soil watered by streams that flow from the cliffs above it. [4] The river Ziobetis has its source right at the foot of the mountains. It flows as a single stream over a distance of some three stades and then, deflected by a rock which blocks its tiny bed, its waters divide and form two channels. [5] Then it becomes a torrent, its violence increased by the rugged rocks over which it runs, and suddenly it drops beneath the ground. For 300 stades it glides along on an invisible course before reappearing as if produced from a separate source. Forming a new channel it now flows with greater volume than before, [6] for it widens to thirteen stades, and then it contracts once more, compressing its flow between narrower banks until it eventually joins another river called the Rhidagnus. [7] According to the local people, anything thrown into the aperture closer to the original source re-emerges at the second opening where the river reappears. Therefore Alexander gave orders for two horses to be thrown in where the waters drop under the ground, and the men sent to retrieve them saw their carcasses discharged where the river re-emerges.

Best regards,

[spitamenes]

You could be right Marcus. I'm going to thumb through Richard Stonemans Alexander the Great~ A Life in Legand. To see if I might have read about it in there. Arrian first came to mind, which is probably where your idea of a possible explaination comes into play for me. But I'm sure I've read that specific claim somewhere as well. Hope I can find it, that's one of those things that will be picking at me until I do.
Which brings me to another story, Alexanders army came across what appeared to be a river that at one point disappeared underground and reappeared a certain distance away. But to make sure they were connected, alexander had his men throw a couple horses into the inlet to see if they would appear on the other side. As they apperently did. Dead of course. Does anyone know what source this story came from? I've been skimming through them but can't seem to find it.

I absolutely love Google Desktop for searching files!

Curtius 6.4[1] His words were received with great enthusiasm by the soldiers, who told him to lead them wherever he wished. [2] The king did not check their momentum, and two days later he was pressing ahead through Parthiene towards the Hyrcanian border. To protect Parthiene against a barbarian incursion, he had left Craterus behind with the troops that were under his command and the contingent led by Amyntas, to which were added 600 horse and as many archers. [3] He now gave Erigyius a small escort and told him to take the baggage by a route through the plains, while he himself took the phalanx and the cavalry, covering a distance of 150 stades before establishing a fortified camp in the valley leading into Hyrcania.

Here there is a dense, shady grove of tall trees, the valley's fertile soil watered by streams that flow from the cliffs above it. [4] The river Ziobetis has its source right at the foot of the mountains. It flows as a single stream over a distance of some three stades and then, deflected by a rock which blocks its tiny bed, its waters divide and form two channels. [5] Then it becomes a torrent, its violence increased by the rugged rocks over which it runs, and suddenly it drops beneath the ground. For 300 stades it glides along on an invisible course before reappearing as if produced from a separate source. Forming a new channel it now flows with greater volume than before, [6] for it widens to thirteen stades, and then it contracts once more, compressing its flow between narrower banks until it eventually joins another river called the Rhidagnus. [7] According to the local people, anything thrown into the aperture closer to the original source re-emerges at the second opening where the river reappears. Therefore Alexander gave orders for two horses to be thrown in where the waters drop under the ground, and the men sent to retrieve them saw their carcasses discharged where the river re-emerges.

Best regards,

Thank you very much!
I absolutely DON'T love having to do it all manually.
And for once my memory seemed to serve me quite well... exept for the part where I forgot who wrote it in the first place.

[marcus]

Curtius 6.4[1] His words were received with great enthusiasm by the soldiers, who told him to lead them wherever he wished. [2] The king did not check their momentum, and two days later he was pressing ahead through Parthiene towards the Hyrcanian border. To protect Parthiene against a barbarian incursion, he had left Craterus behind with the troops that were under his command and the contingent led by Amyntas, to which were added 600 horse and as many archers. [3] He now gave Erigyius a small escort and told him to take the baggage by a route through the plains, while he himself took the phalanx and the cavalry, covering a distance of 150 stades before establishing a fortified camp in the valley leading into Hyrcania.

Here there is a dense, shady grove of tall trees, the valley's fertile soil watered by streams that flow from the cliffs above it. [4] The river Ziobetis has its source right at the foot of the mountains. It flows as a single stream over a distance of some three stades and then, deflected by a rock which blocks its tiny bed, its waters divide and form two channels. [5] Then it becomes a torrent, its violence increased by the rugged rocks over which it runs, and suddenly it drops beneath the ground. For 300 stades it glides along on an invisible course before reappearing as if produced from a separate source. Forming a new channel it now flows with greater volume than before, [6] for it widens to thirteen stades, and then it contracts once more, compressing its flow between narrower banks until it eventually joins another river called the Rhidagnus. [7] According to the local people, anything thrown into the aperture closer to the original source re-emerges at the second opening where the river reappears. Therefore Alexander gave orders for two horses to be thrown in where the waters drop under the ground, and the men sent to retrieve them saw their carcasses discharged where the river re-emerges.

Outstanding, Amyntoros! And outstanding piece of memory of a small and insignificant detail, Spitamenes. I am most impressed.

(Amyntoros: I have have to add that to the miscellania in the Concordance!)

ATB

[spitamenes]

Thanks Marcus, those little stories are usually what I end up remembering most in the sources. I think its because a lot of them can really capture the imagination and almost give you a sense of what it was like to be there. Like when the army marched through a field where a certain type of plant or flower grows, and because of how many soldiers there were, the whole area was filled with the pleasent aroma of the type of flowers they were marching on. Curtius does a good job at describing details like these. But it appeares I am straying from the original subject just a bit.

[athenas owl]

Thanks Marcus, those little stories are usually what I end up remembering most in the sources. I think its because a lot of them can really capture the imagination and almost give you a sense of what it was like to be there. Like when the army marched through a field where a certain type of plant or flower grows, and because of how many soldiers there were, the whole area was filled with the pleasent aroma of the type of flowers they were marching on. Curtius does a good job at describing details like these. But it appeares I am straying from the original subject just a bit.

Please stray some more! I don't recall reading that ever! And what a juxtaposition of a field of scented flowers and it's pleasant aroma...to the blood soaked battlefields, smelling of a less attractive kind of sweetness, the smell of death. *

* I just got off the phone with my mother. My family lives in and around Joplin, Missouri. Some of you may have heard about the terrible tornado that destroyed much of it. Anyway, I asked her how it was going and she talked about that smell, the sickly sweet smell of death. She's been helping some elderly friends try too clean up what is left their home and she experienced first hand that smell.

[spitamenes]

Athenas owl,
I live close to Joplin. We have been running to and from there helping on the weekends. I also play in a band that had a benefit show for the Joplin fund two fridays ago. Its pretty bad over there but its coming around. My whole areas been pounded with three times the amount of tornadoes than normal. I woke up with my neigbors shed in my yard, five feet outside my window a couple weeks ago. . Anyway, about the story of the flowers, I will have to look for it so I can get the specifics for you. Its very short. One, maybe two paragraphs. Nice little graphic detail though.
All the best,
Spitamenes

P.s. Athenas Owl,
if you know anyone who needs help with anything in Joplin please don't hesitate to p.m. me. Your mother was right about the smell. I can vouche for that one. Floods aren't enough, I guess we need tornadoes too... jeez I'm movin. (And we had an earthquake yesterday)

[athenas owl]

spitamenes, thanks for the offer. My folks are all okay (except for the kids and their schools. Sounds most of the schools were damaged or destroyed.) An earthquake? I grew up with tornadoes, though nothing like this one. Funny thing now is, I'm the only one in my family that has a basement (some have root/storm cellars in their yards, but no basements anymore!) Thing is, I live on the Oregon coast and our really damaging natural disasters would be earthquakes and the last place one wants to be in an earthquake is the basement.

Back to Alexander...if I was a more lyrical writer the sweet smelling field of flowers vs. the sweet smell of death on other fields would be a wonderful bit. I wonder if that ever occurred to any of the soldiers?

[spitamenes]

spitamenes, thanks for the offer. My folks are all okay (except for the kids and their schools. Sounds most of the schools were damaged or destroyed.) An earthquake? I grew up with tornadoes, though nothing like this one. Funny thing now is, I'm the only one in my family that has a basement (some have root/storm cellars in their yards, but no basements anymore!) Thing is, I live on the Oregon coast and our really damaging natural disasters would be earthquakes and the last place one wants to be in an earthquake is the basement.

Back to Alexander...if I was a more lyrical writer the sweet smelling field of flowers vs. the sweet smell of death on other fields would be a wonderful bit. I wonder if that ever occurred to any of the soldiers?

Yep... earthquake. 4.2 I believe. Nothing big. But considering everything else going on... might as well throw that in the mix too. Your lyrical idea is great! I might have to use that idea, if your ok with it. all due credits will be given of course. . I've played with the idea of doing a concept album based on story of Alexander but everything that comes out ends up sounding very cheesy and "the Who"ish. So single song might have to suffice.

And about the soldiers, I've always wanted to know what they're music actually sounded like in Alexanders time. I've read about musical and poetry competitions being held in the same way sporting competitions were so it must have been very important to the common people. I would love to know what the common soldiers played and listened to around the fires in camp after a long days march.
Athenas Owl, I'm glad to hear your family is well.
All the best.
Spitamenes

[athenas owl]

There are worse things than sounding like the Who!

Have you ever listened to Daemonia Nymphe? Check them out on Youtube. Not sure how accurate, but I think it might give a sense? My musical knowledge is zip..but I do recall reading that Gregorian chants have their roots in Greek music. Possibly the Greek Orthodox and early Slavic Church music (influenced by the early Greek Church and coming out of the Balkans), as well, might give you a hint?

Please fell free to use the idea! That would please me.

[spitamenes]

There are worse things than sounding like the Who!

Have you ever listened to Daemonia Nymphe? Check them out on Youtube. Not sure how accurate, but I think it might give a sense? My musical knowledge is zip..but I do recall reading that Gregorian chants have their roots in Greek music. Possibly the Greek Orthodox and early Slavic Church music (influenced by the early Greek Church and coming out of the Balkans), as well, might give you a hint?

Please fell free to use the idea! That would please me.

Athenas Owl, Thank you for the musical input. I will definately look into what you wrote about. It would be great to be able to use the scales and style of the greeks for an Alexander ode! If it turns out to be worth listening to I will be sure to send it to you for a listen. Hopefully I can trump Iron Maidens "Alexander the Great" song. I was rockin in the 80s but even I can't handle that one!

[athenas owl]

Hopefully I can trump Iron Maidens "Alexander the Great" song. I was rockin in the 80s but even I can't handle that one!

Ha! Yeah, that song was definitely a Spinal Tap moment

[marcus]

Hopefully I can trump Iron Maidens "Alexander the Great" song. I was rockin in the 80s but even I can't handle that one!

Ha! Yeah, that song was definitely a Spinal Tap moment

You only have to read the lyrics! Great band they might be, but poets they weren't!

ATB

[spitamenes]

Haha, Spinal Tap! I've always wanted to make a tiny stone henge and have it lowerd down from above the stage as we play just to see how many people get the joke! Maybe if my Alexander song goes well ill have a tiny Ishtar Gate drop from the ceiling instead!