Ethics in the ancient times

[Efstathios]

One could say that times then were different. And that's why we cant compare some things with today. But is that the truth? One reason that you could say that changed some things, at least at the west are the teachings of Christianity. And after that, the evolution of civilizations and societies, and education.

But what we see is that before Christianism and after, not that many things changed. Emperors and kings used Christianity as a mean for war. The crusades were made from the western european people. At Byzantium there were emperors like Theodosios, who hunted down the "ethnikoi", the paganists, and committed attrocities. And if we go further on we have the holy inquisition from the Catholic church. And even now we had the nazis, the attrocities in the civil wars in Africa, and other things.

So what has changed? In what way ethics and times were different in the ancient world? Truly one of the most kind Emperors and conquerors was Alexander. What did Julius do? What did the Khan do? What did Hitler do? And so on. And also compare the values in the ancient Greek society with those of some modern societies.

Of course we dont have slaves. Yes, not until the mid 1850's when black people began to revolt.

What is your oppinion in all this?

[jasonxx]

I would say throughout the world maybe in Western Societies Values and respect are fast going down the pan. There is no respect for gender age or culture and to be blunt and pesimistic its getting worse. Id say Ethics of the ancients maybe is based on brotherhood and patriotism. A reason to be joined as brothers to stand fight and live as one respecting group. ok idealised. but its cor valuesthat has totally gone and above all respect.

Marcus made a very good point sometime ago about the degeneration of Society where a mopther and her sisters forced 2 young kids to fight. A sign of the times and how society is continually slipping down the gutter.

kenny

[Paralus]

Truly one of the most kind Emperors and conquerors was Alexander.

And you will go to your grave believing so. That's fine, just don't ask us all to to swear to it.

Kind conquerors? They do not exist. They conquer or they do not. To conquer is to kill. To resist is to be squashed. Should the "conquered" submit then they do so "voluntarily". If they decide they do not like it then it is "revolt" and they are subject to horriffic reprisals because of their perfidy. To quote Bosworth (Cortes and Alexander in Fact and Fiction):

Few commanders have been more expert than Alexander in creating the conditions for mass slaughter, and his troops developed a terrible efficiency in killing. The conquest came at a high price in blood and agony. Vast areas in the west may have fallen to him without serious resistance, but from the great rebellion in Sogdiana in the summer of 329 to his invasion of the Makran in October 325 there was almost continuous fighting, scores of towns destroyed and whole populations, civilian and military alike, massacred

.

You conquer or you do not. There is no "kind".

[Efstathios]

Oh, dont talk about graves. Just last Saturday we were in a car accident, and the seatbelts saved us. Luckily we werent speeding. And all because of a bee that came into the car, and we went offroad.Thank God we are ok. I know it's an expression what you said, so dont worry, it's just sounds weird now.

Michael, i wouldnt use the word kind, but i couldnt find the most appropriate word to indicate the difference between Alexander and the rest in terms of how he treated people that he conquered. Surely the Indian campaign, after they started going back was full of massacres. But as you said he was a conqueror. He found resistance as he did in the other places of the Persian empire. Was it right to wipe out villages? No. But do we know that indeed he wiped out entire villages including women and children?

[Paralus]

Oh, dont talk about graves. Just last Saturday we were in a car accident, and the seatbelts saved us.

Most pleased to hear that you survied Stathi. No injuries to anyone I hope?

What intrigues me is how you've managed to get to the age you have whilst driving on Greek roads.

If Alexander was around today he'd never live to conquer Asia. The roads in Greece would kill him.

Still can't quite believe I drove there for a week and had no accidents. They truly are mad: overtaking on blind mountain hairpin turns!

Didn't take more than a day before I became Greek though. When in Rome do as the Romans do. When in Greece ignore any road rules you've ever known.

[jasonxx]

I love the Greek drivers particullaly on Motorbikes.I saw a greek goy on a 125 cc bike he had his wife and 2 kids on board.

No silly helmets either.

kenny

[Efstathios]

Hahah Michael. As i told you if you stay at the right or middle lane you are ok. Even at a road with one lane, you stay closer to the right section so as to avoid any smart ass trying to overtake another. Anyway, we have some pain from the seatbelts and the bumping, but it will pass. Same thing happens, or actually used to happen in Italy too. Italian drivers were going like 250km/h in the highways, until they made new very strict laws. Still you get to see crazy driving in Italy.

What i dont know is if in the rest of Europe people are confined because of the strict laws, or because they are just more carefull and gentle. I met a German girl some time ago that told me that she came to Greece for a couple of years because she couldnt stand their strict laws. Now she cant stand the Greek chaos in the laws. But recently they have applied strict laws here also. We'll see if they do make a difference.

[amyntoros]

I was on the computer till 3 a.m. last night and logged on again at 3 p.m. today. Only twelve hours away from Pothos and I come back to find complaints on a matter which I thought had been clearly resolved in the recent past.

Offending comments have been removed which has necessitated deleting all or part of some responses. If anyone has anything further to say please feel free to contact me by Private Message or email. (If email, please put Pothos in the subject line.)

Best regards,