How Did The Ancients Shave ?

[kennyxx]

Now this is a starange question for you readers. We are well aware that Alexander was clean shaven. Well I would like to know how they actually shaved. Were talking about pre Steel and relatively Mild metals they used for weapons etc.

Today we use razor shrp razors made from hard steel with a very sharp blade. Ive seen the westerns with cowboys having a shave using Bowie Knives or hunting knives. Even Crochodile Dundee pretended to have a shave with a hunting knife to look macho to the girl.

We do know Alexander was shaven but any clues to how they got such a good shave?

Kenny.

PS has anyone tried shaving with a sharp Knife I had a go just to experiment and it dont work.

[dean]

Hello Kenny,

Excellent question!!!

Just looking on the web couldn't find any page that told me exactly how but apparently shaving was no new thing as soon as copper was in common use.
Found on many sites the quote that went more or less "Parmenio asked Alexander before the battle- "is there any else?" regarding last minute details and Alexander answers,"Nothing, except to shave the Macedonians beards- there is nothing handier to grasp at in battle"

I still couldn't pin down any except web site as to the materials used- although surprisingly some sites claimed that shaving went back as far as Neolithic times with cavemen shaving with flint razors- well if you think about it, Fred Flintstone does sport a clean shaved look(Wilma wouldn't have it any other way) lol

Best regards 2 U,

Dean

[Paralus]

Well I would like to know how they actually shaved. Were talking about pre Steel and relatively Mild metals they used for weapons etc.

PS has anyone tried shaving with a sharp Knife I had a go just to experiment and it dont work.

G'day Kenny.

Had to be a blade of some description. Purpose made I'd suspect. The scissors used for hair cuts have been unearthed I believe, but I'm unaware of shaving kits.

Anyway, given that I've not shaved in.......years, it's not something I take an active interest in! A situation that prompted one moderating Pothosian to declare that I resembled an "old guard Macedonian" - possibly Parmenion or Craterus. Indeed! The temerity.

Parmenion, Craterus, guard - quite possibly. "Old"? Oh the temerityof it!!

[amyntoros]

Here's a French site with quite a few photographs of ancient razors. They seem to be gleaned mostly from antiquities sites, but there are one or two illustrations from books as well. There are more photos on other pages and even some English text, but not every page links to every other one so play around with the links if you're interested.

After seeing these razors, all I can say to the male Pothosians (including good "old" Paralus) is this: If I were a man in ancient times, Alexander would have a difficult time persuading me to shave my face. Then again, I wouldn't have to deal with lice crawling through my beard! And if anyone thinks that's gross or unlikely, see this somwhat satirical piece from the Emperor Julian's own writings:

Now as for praising myself, though I should be very glad to do so, I have no reason for that; but for criticising myself I have countless reasons, and first I will begin with my face. For though nature did not make this any too handsome or well-favoured or give it the bloom of youth, I myself out of sheer perversity and ill-temper have added to it this long beard of mine, to punish it, as it would seem, for this very crime of not being handsome by nature. For the same reason I put up with the lice that scamper about in it as though it were a thicket for wild beasts.

Yeuk! You know . . . I rather think there's more than one reason for the extremely fastidious Alexander wanting his men to shave.

Best regards,

[Paralus]

Oh dear! Is it any wonder I resemble Parmenion!

Looking at those "razors" I believe the lice may well have been welcome!

[jan]

Thanks, Amyntoros, for the link. Very interesting site! Nothing says trust and faith quite so much as a close shave, does it? Maybe someone should pen a novel from the point of view of the barber?

[marcus]

Now this is a starange question for you readers. We are well aware that Alexander was clean shaven. Well I would like to know how they actually shaved. Were talking about pre Steel and relatively Mild metals they used for weapons etc.

PS has anyone tried shaving with a sharp Knife I had a go just to experiment and it dont work.

Kenny,

That has to be one of the best questions posed on Pothos in a very good while - if ever. I salute you! Even better is the fact that a website exists of ancient razors - just goes to show, you can find anything nowadays.

As for your attempt with a sharp knife - I don't know whether you are a martyr to the cause of empirical research ... or just mad

ATB

[Paralus]

He's a chef Marcus. That's all that we need to know.

I'm heading your way it seems Kenny. I'll fill you in via email.

[marcus]

He's a chef Marcus. That's all that we need to know.

True - and one does at least hope that his knives are sharp, therefore ...

ATB

[ScottOden]

Just be glad you weren't born in ancient Egypt. Not only were the men clean-shaven, but males and females both routinely shaved their heads and removed body hair with tweezers! That stings just thinking about it!

As I understand it, a master could strop an impressive edge onto a bronze razor, equal to anything we have today. The drawback, of course, was that you had to be wealthy enough to afford a master bronze-stropper . . .

Scott

[kennyxx]

Marcus Hail

I guess im just insane. Kinda wondered how it would be to shave with a knife. No joy. Chefs knives are sharp but I doubt you can scave with them. I never get that good an edge on them anyway. Although ive seen axes sharpened enough to cut through a sheet of paper and these Samurai Swords are razor sharp. But those bladeses are tempered steal. I just though bronze too soft to put a razor edge on.

Paralus give me a line anytime. My E mail has changed to. issusmegas@yahoo.co.uk

regards

Kenny

[amyntoros]

I also like this question GÇô and DeanGÇÖs historical reference along with ScottGÇÖs remark about master barbers and razor-stropping has given me more food for thought. Now, this is the quote to which Dean referred; Plutarch, Moralia 180 B GÇô Sayings of Kings and Commanders: Alexander

10. Once, when all preparations had been made for battle, his generals asked him whether there was anything else in addition to what they had done. GÇ£Nothing,GÇ¥ said he, GÇ£except to shave the Macedonian beards.GÇ¥ And as Parmenio expressed his surprise, Alexander said, GÇ£DonGÇÖt you know that in battles there is nothing handier to grasp than a beard?GÇ¥

The story as told just canGÇÖt be true, even if itGÇÖs meant to refer to the comparatively smaller battles that took place before AlexanderGÇÖs army left for Asia. None of the rank and file would have owned razors for they previously had no need for one GÇô and as everything was hand forged, a razor would have been a very expensive item to purchase if you didnGÇÖt have any use for it. There were barbers, of course (See SmithGÇÖs Greek and Roman Antiquities, this page under Barba and the next page), but how many of them would have followed the army when an average soldier would only have had his hair cut once a month, if that? (And for some reason, I donGÇÖt picture AlexanderGÇÖs rank and file as being neatly trimmed.) Can you picture long lines of soldiers in front of a relatively few barbers waiting all night to get their beards shaved when there was a battle to be fought the next day? Surely the instruction to shave their beards was given during a period before any soldiers were taken on campaign, allowing the men time to purchase razors, or for large numbers of barbers to come scurrying to follow in the armyGÇÖs wake.

And what about Alexander? Was he already clean-shaven? He was twenty-years-old by the time he ascended the throne GÇô wouldnGÇÖt his beard have started to come in some years before that? Had he already started a fashion amongst his friends for going beardless; explaining his reason to his father who certainly would have asked why his maturing son still had a smooth face? Or could there even have been a period of a few years when Alexander himself had a beard?

To finish, hereGÇÖs a joke about barbers GÇô probably the oldest joke in the world thatGÇÖs still being told today. Plutarch, Moralia 177A GÇô Sayings of Kings and Commanders: Archelaus (King of Macedonia, 413-399 B.C.)

2. When a garrulous barber asked him, GÇ£How shall I cut your hair?GÇ¥ he said, GÇ£In silence.GÇ¥

Okay, I didnGÇÖt say it was a good joke!

Best regards,