"Come then," [Alexander confronts the soldiers of his own army, on an occasion when victory had made them arrogant and unruly] "let any of you strip and display his own wounds, and I will display mine in turn. In my case, there is no part of my body, or none in front [where wounds of honor were received], that has been left unwounded, and there is no weapon of close combat, no missile whose scars I do not bear on my person, but I have been wounded by the sword hand to hand, shot by arrows and struck by a catapult, [all] for your interest, your glory, and your riches ...
A Quick Question?
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A Quick Question?
Hello everyone, it has been a long time since I visited the website or posted anything, I have been very busy. I came across this quote from I believe Arrian, and wanted to know at what point in Alexander's campaigns did he say it?
Re: A Quick Question?
I think it's the Hyphasis Mutiny, although I say that without checking. Which makes it Arrian Book VI? (I'm being far too lazy just to check!).Ambrosia wrote:Hello everyone, it has been a long time since I visited the website or posted anything, I have been very busy. I came across this quote from I believe Arrian, and wanted to know at what point in Alexander's campaigns did he say it?
"Come then," [Alexander confronts the soldiers of his own army, on an occasion when victory had made them arrogant and unruly] "let any of you strip and display his own wounds, and I will display mine in turn. In my case, there is no part of my body, or none in front [where wounds of honor were received], that has been left unwounded, and there is no weapon of close combat, no missile whose scars I do not bear on my person, but I have been wounded by the sword hand to hand, shot by arrows and struck by a catapult, [all] for your interest, your glory, and your riches ...
ATB
Opis- Book 7
Hello,
Just had a sneaky look at my copy of Arrian which I faithfully have here next to my P.C. and after a squint at it, see that it is actually the mutiny at Opis- where Alexander's rhethoric reaches such dizzy heights... It is a beautiful speech- totally improvised and totally brilliant- (makes you wonder if Alexander studied rhetoric in the gardens of Midas with Aristotle.)
Best regards,
Dean
Just had a sneaky look at my copy of Arrian which I faithfully have here next to my P.C. and after a squint at it, see that it is actually the mutiny at Opis- where Alexander's rhethoric reaches such dizzy heights... It is a beautiful speech- totally improvised and totally brilliant- (makes you wonder if Alexander studied rhetoric in the gardens of Midas with Aristotle.)
Best regards,
Dean
carpe diem
Re: Opis- Book 7
Damn!dean wrote:Just had a sneaky look at my copy of Arrian which I faithfully have here next to my P.C. and after a squint at it, see that it is actually the mutiny at Opis- where Alexander's rhethoric reaches such dizzy heights... It is a beautiful speech- totally improvised and totally brilliant- (makes you wonder if Alexander studied rhetoric in the gardens of Midas with Aristotle.)
If only I'd actually bothered to check! Well, I suppose it was 50/50 ... but don't ever take me to a casino.Of course, this is Arrian constructing Alexander's speech, so it's hard to know how close to the original it actually is. That's not to say that Alexander wouldn't have been brilliant off-the-cuff - he will undoubtedly have studied rhetoric and therefore knew how to make a speech ... but we'll never know how far Arrian just took the general idea of what he said - after all, Ptolemy and/or Aristobulus won't have written it down word for word at the time, and therefore in their histories probably just got the gist of it across.
ATB
Yeah, Marcus, I wondered at which court stenographer caught his every word so well too! 
Who is to be given credit for all Alexander's speeches, his speech writers, or Callisthenes. (I suspect that Callisthenes is probably obsessed with writing about Alexander today, don't you?) Jan
Hi everyone!
It is a very stirring speech. I was just reading it now ( The Penguin Classics, Aubrey De Selincourt version) and I thought that many of Alexander's claims were rather dubious, such as his claim that he had given each of the dead soldiers a fitting burial, although I thought that he had abandoned many of his men in the Gedrosian desert seeing as his men were too exhausted and malnourished to give their comrades a proper burial.
It is a very stirring speech. I was just reading it now ( The Penguin Classics, Aubrey De Selincourt version) and I thought that many of Alexander's claims were rather dubious, such as his claim that he had given each of the dead soldiers a fitting burial, although I thought that he had abandoned many of his men in the Gedrosian desert seeing as his men were too exhausted and malnourished to give their comrades a proper burial.
Hello,
Going through the Hindu Kush- kawak pass- they got to eating their pack animals raw- and were told to eat it with a locally found herb to prevent disease- despite this- and the generally horrible January conditions at those altitudes- many died and will never have been given a proper burial either although I think that Alexander under normal circumstances was respectful of such things even of the dead of his enemies? Darius? and the tombs just outside of the Persepolis area?
When we take the case of the tomb of Cyrus the Great it would have been easy for him to desecrate it- but he left it untouched.
Best wishes,
Dean
Going through the Hindu Kush- kawak pass- they got to eating their pack animals raw- and were told to eat it with a locally found herb to prevent disease- despite this- and the generally horrible January conditions at those altitudes- many died and will never have been given a proper burial either although I think that Alexander under normal circumstances was respectful of such things even of the dead of his enemies? Darius? and the tombs just outside of the Persepolis area?
When we take the case of the tomb of Cyrus the Great it would have been easy for him to desecrate it- but he left it untouched.
Best wishes,
Dean
carpe diem