Cup of Honour

[dean]

Hi, recently I recently read about the condition of Alexander in his last days in Babylon. The article stated that shortly before his death he had drunk a "cup of honour". According to the article this famous cup could contain "a lot of wine"(several litres), which Alex drank off to toast his soldiers.- Regarding Alexander's drinking habits, with Plutarch you get the distinct impression that drinking was something that he did with full control (the moral example always at hand)and yet alcholism was seemingly rife amongst Macedonian soldiers. Also according to other reports that I have read, drinking excessively seems to have caused him serious problems,after looking at the Kleitos "incident" and his subsequent thoughts of suicide and withdrawal to his tent.This is probably completely erroneous but Persepolis might not have burned quite so much if it hadn't have been for Alexander's love of pure wine.But I suppose that he believed that Dionysus would favour his exploits this way... Anyway the question is; does anybody know anything about the cup of honour? Talking about drink, did anyone hear of the anecdote of Alexander setting a challenge to his men to see who could drink the most and the guy who won died two or three days later? (Admittedly he did drink the equivalent of about ten bottles of wine) Anyway cheers!!! I toast you all.

[ruthaki]

There is a very intersting book titled
"The Invisible Enemy" which addresses the issues of Alexander's excessive drinking habits and also the fact he was very likely using a lot of addictive medications for pain after his various serious injuries. I can't recall off-hand the author but I will look it up for you. They usually drank wine watered, but I understand he had started drinking it neat, and in greater quantities than before, especially after the death of Hephaestion.

[nick]

The author is John Maxwell O'Brien.By the way, about two years ago O'Brien visited our Forum and left an e-mail saying that he was pleasantly surprised by the level of discussion here. I think it is always nice when a 'serious author' expresses his (or her) interest.Regards -
Nick

[John]

The full title of the book is "Alexander the Great: The Invisible Enemy," by John Maxwell O'Brien.Myself, I never got past the title. I just can't figure it out. Does it mean Alexander is the invisible enemy? Does it mean wine is the invisible enemy? But wine isn't invisible. I look at it as Alexander's (invisible?) soul is the enemy of whosoever disrespects it/him.I guess the book itself is kind of fun, though.Cheers,John

[marcus]

I thoroughly enjoyed the book when I read it a few years ago, but I am very wary of taking it too much to heart. It seemed to me that it is quite easy to apportion some 'blame' to alcohol for many incidents in Alexander's life - but a very interesting piece of post-rationalisation, all the same.If I recall correctly (and I might be doing O'Brien a grave injustice here, but it's a long time since I read the book) he puts a lot of emphasis on Alexander's following in Dionysos's footsteps, which then appears to put across the idea that the whole expedition revolved around drinking and Bacchic revels.But it is an enjoyable read and worth ploughing through if one isn't prepared to accept everything in it as gospel.BTW, the "invisible enemy" surely does refer to the wine - in the same way that people nowadays see alcohol as a 'friend' when, actually, it's a pretty darn dangerous drug. (I'm not a Methodist, by the way, and I drink my wine neat, in case anyone was wondering.) :-)All the bestMarcus

[John]

Maybe Alexander's invisible enemy was Dionysus, the god of wine? After all, Alexander's seer's said it was due to Dionysus' wrath that he killed Cleitus, since Alexander had neglected then to sacrifice to the (invisible) god.John

[marcus]

Ah, hadn't thought of that. Good idea, John.Now all we need is for O'Brien to revisit the site and tell us exactly what he means!All the bestMarcus

[John]

Nothing like good teamworkJohn

[Tre]

Hello Dean:The Macedonians always drank their wine undiluted as we do, which was one of those 'barbarian' things the Southern Greeks used to accuse them of.As for alcoholism, we simply can't make a judgement - he can't be tested to see if he displays the characteristics of a true alcoholic, i.e. if he suffered withdrawl symptoms, et al. Historically, all we know is he drank heavily on occasion, which is what all Macedonians did. And the King would certainly be expected to be an ace topper, just as he was expected to be the best and bravest soldier everyone emulted on the field. Dionysus was a very important god to their culture.And naturally, drinking contests were par for the course.Regards,Tre

[maciek]

I think that alkoholism is something You can't see, and maybe author ment this.
I read about archeological dicoveries in Persepolis which gives the new light on this problem. It is now prooved that they took almost all things from the pallace before tha burning it. So I think Alexander wanted to finish his revenge (for the burning of the acropolis in Athens). It might be connectet with Dionisus celebrations and drinking but decision was made before the banquet and was prepared methodically. Only mistake was made they didnt took books from some building connected to the palace, or in the palace maybe.Maciek - with regards

[agesilaos]

The drinking contest is in Plutarch Alex. 70 i and he goes on to pooh-pooh the Cup of Herkules story at the end of chapter 75.