Argyraspids with swords?

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LeGrandAriel
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Argyraspids with swords?

Post by LeGrandAriel »

The Argyraspids use sarissa at some time,and they are flexible to use swords?(E.G. in the battle of Gabiene) Are there any sources about their weapon in Diadochi wars?
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spitamenes
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Re: Argyraspids with swords?

Post by spitamenes »

Greetings!
long story short,.. I have absolutely no idea! :D . I do know of at least one or two gentlemen here who are very well versed in the diodach wars. Maybe they can throw in a quick response sometime in the future. Until then, I'll be scanning my limited resources for you to see if anything comes up.
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agesilaos
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Re: Argyraspids with swords?

Post by agesilaos »

Funerary reliefs depict typical phalangite equipment, sarissa, greaves and a sword hanging from a baldric (a shoulder belt) as an elite the Argyraspids would certainly have had as much and as a standing part of of the army they presumably drilled with all the weapons available. Written sources are scant re equipment, Diodoros has Ptolemy Soter defending Camel's Fort with a sarissa but we have to deduce the armament of the Argyraspids from their position in the battle-line.
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Paralus
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Re: Argyraspids with swords?

Post by Paralus »

Argyraspides (Silver Shields) was the latter name given to Alexander's regular hypaspists. The other sub-unit was the agema. They are often named separately (Issos: "the agema and the hypaspists"; Gaugamela: "the agema of the hypaspists and the other hypaspists") and they clearly formed part of the heavy infantry line. In every 'major' battle they are named as part of the phalanx.

Their arming is a matter of continued debate. A popular theory is that they were hoplite armed (as per the Greeks). Those who hold such often claim that this made them more flexible. Being "flexible" hoplites they provide flank protection for the phalanx. The old chestnut that this also allowed them to act as a hinge between charging cavalry and phalanx is part of this argument. Whilst a man not carrying a sarisa can likely lope along a little easier than one so burdened, a man in full hoplite panoply is hardly to be seen sprinting with a cavalry charge. Not to mention that the Greek hoplite was a creature of phalanx warfare - as much so as the Macedonian phalangite. A fractured hoplite phalanx was near as disastrous as a broken 'phalangite' phalanx. In pitched battle they were most likely sarisa armed and the elite part of the battle line.

That said, they clearly performed tasks where a sarisa was not wanted. The storming of the breach at Tyre is a perfect case. Arrian, though using confusing terminology at times, clearly describes Alexander and his hypaspists taking the wall. Although, as the troops with him take the wall, Arrian then calls them "hetairoi" he clearly means hypasists. These will have been the agema - the troops led by the king and who would defend the king on foot. They are clearly using spears and not sarisae as they've come from a trireme with a tower mounted upon it. Just as clearly they will have used the xiphos (sword).

I've harbored the suspicion for some time that the agema was hoplite armed. These fellows (after Heckel) are the sons of the Macedonian noble families. Such armour was still a social signifier in the fourth century - more so in a Macedonia somewhat "behind the Greek times". If the artwork on the "Alexander sarcophagus" is historically accurate then the "hoplite" armed fellow is a member of the agema fighting close to his king (as with the Alexander Mosaic).

The Argyraspides almost certainly fought as "phalangites" under Eumenes. At Gabiene they took on Antigonus' Macedonians. Their clear and stunning success (despite the exaggeration of not a man lost) was not likely to be achieved fighting as hoplites.
Last edited by Paralus on Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.

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agesilaos
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Re: Argyraspids with swords?

Post by agesilaos »

Personally, I don't think Alexander had any hoplites other than the allies; the notion that they were more flexible than phalangites re-equipped with javelins is pure bunkam; were hoplites, even those who had shed most of the body armour been flexible one wonders why the Greeks felt the need to increasingly suppliment them with peltasts and psiloi and how they fell apart in the face of Philip's 'inflexible' phalanx. The Alexander Sarcophagus is indeed a dubious source, there is not a Macedonian rimless shield to be seen only the Greek hoplite style! :shock:
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Re: Argyraspids with swords?

Post by Paralus »

agesilaos wrote:...one wonders why the Greeks felt the need to increasingly suppliment them with peltasts and psiloi and how they fell apart in the face of Philip's 'inflexible' phalanx.
Indeed. As I remarked above: the hoplite was a pixel in a picture of phalanx warfare. One pixel means zilch; many a whole. Hoplite warfare was an exercise in rigid formation and contact. Without going into the (in)famous notion of othismos, the push, shove and spear "fencing" demaded a rigid close formation. If a hoplite's unshielded side was exposed he was meat in a butchery. Greek hoplite battles show this and Mantinea (418) is a classic example. Once a phalanx is broken the Greek cavalry (and "lights") would run them to ground. Had Greek cavalry been of the class of the Macedonian and supported by dedicated lighter troops, we'd have read of far more pursuit and massacres than we do. Other than a larger shield (and I believe the Philip-Alexander phalanx shield was larger than later Helleistic models), a phalangite - given he wears a cuirass - alone with xiphos and shield is little different to a hoplite alone with xiphos and shield.

So much for a "flexible hinge" defending the phalanx's flank.
agesilaos wrote:The Alexander Sarcophagus is indeed a dubious source, there is not a Macedonian rimless shield to be seen only the Greek hoplite style! :shock:
In the end it is artwork - extremely high quality - but art none the less. Were it executed by Greeks the hoplite equipment needs little explanation. Every "Macedonian" depicted is a hoplite and, so many say, therefore every Macedonian depicted is a hypaspist. Slightly circular. Worse, in the "heroizing" relief, the Persians too are hoplites. At least they're are armed with Greek aspides just as are the Macedonian "hoplites" or "hypaspists".

If any unit were so armed in the Macedonian array of Alexander it was the agema of the hypaspists. Such high staus armour suits their high level in Macedonian society. That the other hypaspists - recruited from the strongest and tallest of all the Macedonians - were provided such arms is very much open to question. The agema of the hypaspists is always posted in contact with the Companion cavalry. Again, if the depiction is militarily accurate, the "hoplite" is a fellow of the foot agema. He certainly cannot be an Agrianian who also are found with the Companion cavalry.

In any case, they clearly are using the xiphos.
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Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους;
Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.

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