Αρχαιολογικόν Δελτίον

Discuss Philip's achievements and Macedonia pre-Alexander

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sean_m
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Αρχαιολογικόν Δελτίον

Post by sean_m » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:02 pm

The journal Archaiologikon Deltion has been digitalized and can be downloaded at http://ir.lib.uth.gr/handle/11615/2196? ... tribute=en Most of the articles are in Modern Greek with some English, French, and German but there are usually abstracts. Sites like Vergina were partially published here.

In Arms and Armour of the Greeks Snodgrass says that "AD 1963, 222" describes a wooden spear 2.1 metres long with an iron point and an iron butt. I don't see that in this article in Tomos 17, do any of the Greeks here see it?
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system1988
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Re: Αρχαιολογικόν Δελτίον

Post by system1988 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:01 pm

Υou cannot see the text because it belongs to volume 18,1963 of the A.D which contains the designs of the tomb ( but the objects must be viewed with a magnifying glass...) There are not photos -how valuable they would be ,since traces of wood were saved- but the dimencion of the spear is very precise : 2,22 m
Τhanks God my name in these volumes will be slow to emerge ...
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sean_m
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Re: Αρχαιολογικόν Δελτίον

Post by sean_m » Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:38 pm

Thank you Pauline! Greece had not so much money to print nice journals with photographs in 1963.

I think I have been swindled and this is the same spear that Minor M. Markle talks about. Do they say anything about the date? Snodgrass thought "early iron age" and Christopher Matthew thought "fourth century BCE."

It is a big big problem that so few people working on early Greek warfare know the archaeology or talk to colleagues in Greece who could inform them about important finds! There must be other finds like this which did not come to the attention of famous British or American academics

Edit: You can download the whole of Tomos 18 (1965, but the journal was 2 years behind schedule) at http://hdl.handle.net/11631/21620
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system1988
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Re: Αρχαιολογικόν Δελτίον

Post by system1988 » Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:25 pm

sean_m wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:38 pm
Thank you Pauline! Greece had not so much money to print nice journals with photographs in 1963.

I think I have been swindled and this is the same spear that Minor M. Markle talks about. Do they say anything about the date? Snodgrass thought "early iron age" and Christopher Matthew thought "fourth century BCE."

It is a big big problem that so few people working on early Greek warfare know the archaeology or talk to colleagues in Greece who could inform them about important finds! There must be other finds like this which did not come to the attention of famous British or American academics

Edit: You can download the whole of Tomos 18 (1965, but the journal was 2 years behind schedule) at http://hdl.handle.net/11631/21620
Greece did have some capital to invest on taking photos back in 1963 but the archaeologists of the time didn't have good skills at taking pictures. Below is an example of photos about the tumulus and the grave you are looking for. It is the tumulus LXVIII, grave "E". The archaeologist responsible numbered the tumuli on their photos but it doesn't show. The third photo shows the grace "E" where the iron point and the iron butt of the spear. It does look humble but many of these tombs revealed great findings. The fourth photo is the design/depiction of the grave "E". It depicts the findings (and the spear) but you might need a magnifying lens or a stronger zoom to see it.
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Last edited by system1988 on Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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system1988
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Re: Αρχαιολογικόν Δελτίον

Post by system1988 » Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:37 pm

Two more photos, the first from a nearby that shows the eight-shaped pins and if I am not mistaken 2 sword handles. Not even for such an important artifact does a better picture exist. Someone will have to visit the museum's storages himself/herself to see them. The last photo is the text on which you are interested, the description of grave "E". It is not neo-greek exactly, it is "modern greek purified version" that resembled ancient greek quite a bit. It is the version that my generation was forced to write and express oursevles during the military occupation "Junta". No modern Greek institutions (but for the Orthodox church) nor the citizens use it today.
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The date which is recommended is ( of course) ' preistoric era " -iron age -and not 'fourth century BCE !!! . I may come back with more
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sean_m
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Re: Αρχαιολογικόν Δελτίον

Post by sean_m » Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:18 pm

Thank you Pauline! I tried to thank you at the gmail address you gave me some years ago, but it no longer works for me. You can find my email address on my about page.

Unfortunately, most of the people studying early Aegean Greek warfare only use archaeology through broad books written in English ... they don't read site reports or monographs. There are far too many books by Anglos with PhDs who say that Greek swords were "up to 70 cm long" but some in the Early Iron Age were more than 100 cm long! In the classical period 80 cm is not unusual. And just opening standard books by archaeologists like Imma Killian-Dirlmeier will tell you that.
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