TV programme

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Alexias
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Re: TV programme

Post by Alexias »

To be perfectly honest, you are not missing a lot. There is an awful lot of repetition in the programmes. There are one or two good bits and the scenery is amazing, but other than that the logic is at times a bit difficult to follow.
Last edited by Alexias on Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Paralus
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Re: TV programme

Post by Paralus »

Alexias wrote:To be perfectly honest, you are not missing a lot. There is an awful lot of repetition in the programmes. There are one or two good bits and the scenery is amazing, but other than that the logic is at times a bit difficult to follow.
The logic, Alexias, is easy to follow. The entire series is about the great "lost Oxus civilisation". Alexander is simply a thread to tie that all together. The presenter's "logic" is mostly anything but and guesswork becomes method (modern carpets depicting ancient citadels was a hoot).

I agree the visuals are great and well worth the watching but history?
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Alexias
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Re: TV programme

Post by Alexias »

Paralus wrote:
Alexias wrote:To be perfectly honest, you are not missing a lot. There is an awful lot of repetition in the programmes. There are one or two good bits and the scenery is amazing, but other than that the logic is at times a bit difficult to follow.
The logic, Alexias, is easy to follow. The entire series is about the great "lost Oxus civilisation". Alexander is simply a thread to tie that all together. The presenter's "logic" is mostly anything but and guesswork becomes method (modern carpets depicting ancient citadels was a hoot).

I agree the visuals are great and well worth the watching but history?
The bit I particularly had in mind was in the first episode where the melt waters from the last Ice Age seem to have made it possible to travel from the Mediterranean to the Oxus by water 6,000 years ago. Fine, I got that, but he seems to imply that it was still possible in Alexander's day and he made a logical argument for water travel being possible between the Black and Caspian seas, but then it all got a bit foggy. And where did all that water go in 4,000 years? I thought the last Ice Age in Europe ended 11,000 years ago and that once the weight of the ice lifted, the land rose, effectively causing sea levels to drop - but was this explained? Maybe his dates were a bit off.

But, yes, it is a travelogue really and Alexander is simply the selling point.
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Paralus
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Re: TV programme

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Alexias wrote:The bit I particularly had in mind was in the first episode where the melt waters from the last Ice Age seem to have made it possible to travel from the Mediterranean to the Oxus by water 6,000 years ago. Fine, I got that, but he seems to imply that it was still possible in Alexander's day and he made a logical argument for water travel being possible between the Black and Caspian seas, but then it all got a bit foggy. And where did all that water go in 4,000 years? I thought the last Ice Age in Europe ended 11,000 years ago and that once the weight of the ice lifted, the land rose, effectively causing sea levels to drop - but was this explained? Maybe his dates were a bit off.
Yes. The problem is that there is no scientific work being done here. No core samples, for example, which might shed light on when the area he is caliming was a sea was last covered in water. Plainly, given the region, this is not a practical thing safety wise, etc. He is thus free to assert that this was sea and that the Oxus delta was alive and flush with water and life at the time of Alexander. It all makes for great visuals and brings into focus the sheer distances and lands traveled - on foot - by the Macedonian forces.

I'm still getting over the modern day rugs whose stylised decorations are baldly asserted to represent the lost citadels of the Oxus civilisation.
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athenas owl
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Re: TV programme

Post by athenas owl »

Paralus wrote:
Alexias wrote:The bit I particularly had in mind was in the first episode where the melt waters from the last Ice Age seem to have made it possible to travel from the Mediterranean to the Oxus by water 6,000 years ago. Fine, I got that, but he seems to imply that it was still possible in Alexander's day and he made a logical argument for water travel being possible between the Black and Caspian seas, but then it all got a bit foggy. And where did all that water go in 4,000 years? I thought the last Ice Age in Europe ended 11,000 years ago and that once the weight of the ice lifted, the land rose, effectively causing sea levels to drop - but was this explained? Maybe his dates were a bit off.
Yes. The problem is that there is no scientific work being done here. No core samples, for example, which might shed light on when the area he is caliming was a sea was last covered in water. Plainly, given the region, this is not a practical thing safety wise, etc. He is thus free to assert that this was sea and that the Oxus delta was alive and flush with water and life at the time of Alexander. It all makes for great visuals and brings into focus the sheer distances and lands traveled - on foot - by the Macedonian forces.

I'm still getting over the modern day rugs whose stylised decorations are baldly asserted to represent the lost citadels of the Oxus civilisation.

Don't know about this tv program, but it is entirely possible that the Oxus did empty into the Caspian in his time. In my far too many bookmarks on my old computer, I have PDFs and article on the various courses of the Oxus over the centuries. The Uzboy channel, now a dried up river that emptied into the Caspian below the Gulf of Kara (I think that's the name). Research on this has gone on for decades. The Oxus has moved around quite a bit over the centuries since. Not sure why you think it is so unsafe now, though?

However, regarding ATG, the Oxus emptying into the Caspian would still have been quite a bit north of where he was, the Karakum Desert still lying between, so I don't know . Though there was much more extensive irrigation in the region, prior the Mongol and later Turkman troubles. Though now, Uzbekistan is one of the reasons that the Aral is having such issues because of modern irrigation. Cotton, a main export requires a lot of water. Not to mention the other countries in the region availing themselves of the waters coming from Mount Imeon.
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Paralus
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Re: TV programme

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athenas owl wrote:Don't know about this tv program, but it is entirely possible that the Oxus did empty into the Caspian in his time. In my far too many bookmarks on my old computer, I have PDFs and article on the various courses of the Oxus over the centuries. The Uzboy channel, now a dried up river that emptied into the Caspian below the Gulf of Kara (I think that's the name). Research on this has gone on for decades. The Oxus has moved around quite a bit over the centuries since. Not sure why you think it is so unsafe now, though?
More to the point that Adams makes great play of the dangers of travel in the areas he's "researching" (Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and of course Afghanistan). He seems never to forget to remind us that westerners could "be shot" here and such all the while decrying that this makes research - archaeological and other - impossible for western academics.

Yes it is entirely possible - quite probable in fact - that the Oxus emptied into the Caspian in Alexander's day. My issue (which I did not explain - my bad) is that Adams, if I recall correctly, claimed that Patroclus (who was to report to Seleucus the viability of trade from the Black Sea to the Caspian) sailed from the Black Sea into the Caspian and into the Oxus Delta. I didn't watch too closely (cooking dinner and forgot I've a Foxtel IQ to record it) but I can't see how such a claim could be substantiated.
athenas owl wrote:However, regarding ATG, the Oxus emptying into the Caspian would still have been quite a bit north of where he was, the Karakum Desert still lying between, so I don't know . Though there was much more extensive irrigation in the region, prior the Mongol and later Turkman troubles. Though now, Uzbekistan is one of the reasons that the Aral is having such issues because of modern irrigation. Cotton, a main export requires a lot of water. Not to mention the other countries in the region availing themselves of the waters coming from Mount Imeon.
Yes - a dried old channel runs to Lake Sarykamysh. One can imagine that in days of less intensive irrigation and cotton demands this will have filled enough to run through the Uzboy channel which seems to have been the river's once logical route.

I look forward to more sweeping claims tomorrow night...
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Re: TV programme

Post by marcus »

Paralus wrote:More to the point that Adams makes great play of the dangers of travel in the areas he's "researching" (Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and of course Afghanistan). He seems never to forget to remind us that westerners could "be shot" here and such all the while decrying that this makes research - archaeological and other - impossible for western academics.
Which is nonsense as far as Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan is concerned, anyway. Safe as houses! :D (Obviously, Afghanistan is a bit more hairy ...)
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Re: TV programme

Post by Hando »

Hi, I found a way to watch all 6 episodes online for free.
Just click this link.
http://watchseries-online.ch/2014/02/al ... 01e01.html
On the top right hand corner you will see a menu for all 6 episodes. Just remember some of the links for each of the episodes will ask you to register or sign up. You don't need to do so. Just keep clicking on the links until you find an option which just allows you to play the video. No need to sign up or register.
The problem is that watching them online from this website may take ages as it keeps pausing.
So what you need to do is download VSO Downloader. VSO will download these once it detects them. Allow VSO to detect all 6 episodes and wait until they are downloaded. Then you can watch them without the pauses.
Here is a link to VSO Downloader.
http://vso_downloader.en.softonic.com/
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Re: TV programme

Post by Jaza »

Just wanted to mention, I've written an article that explores more-or-less the same large area that the documentary covered, and that tries to clarify and to examine more closely many of the places and theories put forward about the Oxus region:

http://greenash.net.au/thoughts/2014/10 ... us-region/

For anyone else who's interested in learning more about it all, hope the article is of use to you.
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