ISOCRATES

[HEPHAISTION]

THE WAR AGAINST PERSIA WAS AN OLD GREEK DREAM. SOME ORATORS LIKE ISOCRATES WANTED THE UNION OF ALL GREEKS. HE ADRESSED WITH LETTERS TO A LOT OF GREEK STATES AND TO IASON, THE KING OF THESSALIA, BUT ONLY PHILLIP, AS A DECISIVE GREEK KING OF AN UNREGARDED GREEK STATE, MACEDONIA, COULD REALIZE THIS DREAM AS A REVENGE AGAINST PERSIANS BECAUSE OF THE FACTS OF THE 5th CENTURY (PERSIAN WARS).

[DEMARATUS]

I MUST SAY THAT ALL THESE ARE TRUE.BY THE WAY ISOCRATES EXHORTED PHILLIP TO USE VIOLENCE AGAINST THE OTHER GREEKS.

[John]

Right. Isocrates exhorted Jason, king of Thessaly to get revenge against the Persians for the sake of the Hellenes. But Jason got assassinated.Then he exhorted Philip to get revenge; Philip also got assassinated.Alexander son of Philip actually got the revenge.What do you think? Did Alexander meet Isocrates in person when he went to Athens after the battle of Chaironeia?
John

[HEPHAISTION]

LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING:
WAS DARIUS THE LEGAL PERSIAN KING? WHAT'S YOUR OPINION ABOUT VAGOES?

[HEPHAISTION]

JOHHN, YOU CAN USE THE NAME "GREEKS" AND THE NAME "HELLENES" TOO. I WAS LIVING IN GREECE FOR 4 YEARS (AS YOU CAN SEE MY E-MAIL ADRESS IS GREEK) AND I KNOW SOME THINGS. ARISTOTELES SAYS THAT THE NAME GREEKS IS OLDER THAN THE NAME HELLENES. EUROPEANS CALL THEM GREEKS BECUSE OF THE "GREEKS" A GREEK POPULATION IN EPIRUS. ARABIANS, TURKS,PERSIANS ETC CALL THEM "YUNANS" BECAUSE OF THE CONTACT WITCH THEY HAD WITH IONIANS CITIES IN ASIA MINOR.

[Nicator]

A certain Greek guy told me in a conversation one day before we went on this trip to Greece that the word "Greek" was originally given to the Hellenes by the Romans as a derogatory term which meant "peasant slave"...he was irritated about it, and voiced his dissent towards the Romans quite plainly. Is there any truth to this? I believed it to be true, because of his superior insight to the greek world, and also that his older brother was at the time the "Ambassador of History" of Greece. This conversation took place before my "Alexander" epoch poem was dreamed up, but after I had written this poem about Democritus of Abdera (circa 460 b.c.? to 350 b.c.?).

[John]

Sounds right to me. I think the Romans had an ancient hatred for the Hellenes. I read somewhere that the ancestors of the Romans were actually Trojan refugees, who had fled to the Rome area after the Hellenes defeated them at Troy.John

[marcus]

Well, John, Roman *legend* said that they were Trojan refugees - supposedly descended from Aeneas who, being under Aphrodite's protection, was able to escape from Troy. But that was just legend, in the same way that the (pre-Anglo-Saxon invasion) Britons were said to be descendents of Brutus (the son of Aeneas (if I recall correctly), not the assassin of Caesar).All the bestMarcus

[John]

I guess all their history at that early date was "legend." It would be the perfect place to hide from the Hellenes, though - on the other side of the boot.John

[marcus]

That's true, John. Still, it didn't stop Pyrrhus from popping over and whooping their backsides in the early 3rd century, did it?If I recall correctly, the Trojan business didn't really start until Virgil wrote Aeneid. I suppose the legend could have been around for much longer, though. Of course, it was important for the Romans that they had some link to the Iliad - gave them a bit more credibility!All the bestMarcus

[John]

Well, they couldn't hide forever! I don't think they really got "Hellenised," though, until the "Greekling" Roman Emperor Hadrian, followed by Marcus Aurelius, followed pretty much by a bad case of chaos.John

[Nick Christakes]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that much of the peninsula of Rome was settled by the Hellenes in the 8th through 6th centuries b.c. when the Greek civilization went through a massive colonization "program". This "program" was not an organized effort on the part of the disparate greek city states, but rather it was driven by need for scarce resources more than anything. This colonization reached as far as modern day Spain, (and maybe further) to the west, and well into asia in the east. So, the Roman's may have already been "Hellene" and not aware of it.
later Nicator

[John]

I know the Hellenes colonized Sicily and the foot of the boot, but I don't think they made it up as far as Rome.John

[marcus]

The Greeks certainly didn't make it as far as Rome - and the Romans were already there, albeit living in squalid mud huts and putting their children out to be suckled by wolves... .All the bestMarcus

[hephaistion]

SO, I MUST GIVE AN ANSWER! WHAT I SAID ABOUT THE WORD "GREEKS" IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.NOW, ABOUT HOMER. DON'T FORGET THAT ILIAD IS THE FIRST TEXT IN WHICH WE CAN FIND THE NAME ALEXANDER(ANOTHER NAME FOR PARIS).TROIANS IN ILIAD HAVE GREEK NAMES , THEY SPEAK GREEK AND THEY HAVE THE GODS THAT GREEKS HAD. ABOUT AENEAS, APHRODITE'S AND ANCHISES'S SON:IT'S ONLY A LEGEND. DON'T FORGET THAT ROMANS LIKED TO SAY THAT THEY WERE COMING FROM TROIANS. ALSO THEY WERE SAYING THAT ACHILLEUS WAS IMMORTAL THOUHG HOMER DOES NOT AGREE. THE REASON? ACHILLEUS WON DURING A FIGHT AGAINST AENEAS, SOMETHING THAT ROMANS DIDN'T LIKE.