what if

[Federico]

Hi all, philai ka+¼ philoi,A "what if" scenario lives in my mind, I have an idea about it and I want to know your opinion now. The problem is simple: What If Alexander wasn't dead and he had decided to march against Rome? I know this is a stupid problem, but it allows us to expose our points of view and historical valutations. In Italy we say: "la storia non si fa n+¬ coi "se" n+¬ coi "ma"", that is: "history is made neither of "if" nor of "but"", however, let's enjoy ourselves by making hypotheses! This is my thought: Alexander rules his empire from Babylon. After some years spent strengthening his power and controlling the new territories, Great King Alexander takes interest in the west. The first goal is Carthage, the second the Greek poleis of Southern Italy, Rome, then the Etruscan confederation. Let's imagine that Alexander is successful and around 294/3 BC he decides that it's Rome's turn now. At that time Rome was already a respectable power. After the battle at Sentino (295 BC) Rome was the real master of peninsular Italy and the Etruscans were almost inoffensive. Italy was very populous at that time. Modern studies states that at those times Rome and its Latin allies could field an army of 300,000 infantry and 20,000 cavalry. The new manipular fighting style gave great mobility to the army and always fresh soldiers in combat thanks to the "attack & retreat" technique. Italian auxiliarii are good cavalry and skirmishers. Alexander's imperial army is huge and various. Phalanxes, Persian levies, Bactrian cavalry, elephants, companions, Hypaspists, Cretan archers, Rhodian slingers, (probably) Tarentine light cavalry etc...(you all know very well these units, so, no comment). Let's leave imagination and let's point out some real events. A real Hellenistic army under Pyrrhus invaded Italy in around 280 BC. Two "Pyrrhic" victories at Heraclea and Ascoli Satriano, the unsuccessful campaign against Carthage in Sicily, then the tragic defeat at Maleventum against Marcus Curius Dentatus in 275 BC. Epirotes were good soldiers and Pyrrhus a great leader (Hannibal considered Pyrrhus greater than Alexander himself!), but Romans won. In 273 BC Ptolemy Philadelphos (the most powerful hellenistic ruler of his time) sent a messenger to Rome in order to establish friendly relationships, aware of the power of the Urbs. Every time Romans fought against a phalanx-based army (exept at Cannae), then they proved superior (Zama, Kynoskephalai, Magnesia, Pydna

[Federico]

I answer to myself to give my conclusions (not enough space in the page for my prolixity!) and the second part of my message...
... Chaeronea, etc.). Livy (not a military expert) claimed that Romans would nail Alexander to the water-line (ah, ah). However some sources (very uncertain) states that Rome sent to Alexander messengers in order to submit itself to the new master of the world (all inventions). Again imagination: Alexander has infinite resources and he had always obtained what he wanted. I think that after a bloody and long war with the Romans defending each mountain of the Appennino Alexander would be the winner and the uncontested master of the civilized world.
I'm sorry for my prolixity and for my Italo-english. However this forum is a good way to improve my "lame" english, with your help.
Phobos ka+¼ Deimos
Federico

[Kit]

Yes, I believe Alexander would have defeated Rome of that time period. You must remember that the Phalanx faced by the Roman's was not the Phalanx as organised and employed by Phillip & Alexander.
The resources available to Alexander, allied to his 'genius' would have proved too much for the Republic. Remember that Hannibal won many allies amongst the other Italien states, Alexander would have won more still!
Still, it would have been an interesting contest!
Regards,
Kit.

[Federico]

Yes, we perfectly agree. The little Republic had good resources, it proved superior to Pyrrhus, but Alexander is Alexander. However Roman warfare system was really an innovation, a good test for Alexander's Oikoumene. If you're interested in this topic, check the long "diatriba" between Terratheon end me, under "Rome vs Alexander" posting.

[Kit]

Thanks, I have been monitoring your discussion, but not until i'd replied to your initial posting!
Regards,
Kit.