STRABON

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HEPHAISTION

STRABON

Post by HEPHAISTION »

"MACEDONIA IS GREECE"
STRABO, ANCIENT GREEK AUTHOR
JEN

Re: STRABON

Post by JEN »

I AGREE. AND I WANT TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT DEMOSTHENES WHO WAS SAYINS THAT PHILIP AND ALEXANDER WERE BARBARIANS. DEMOSTHENES WAS ACCEPTING GOLD FROM PERSIA TO SAY THOSE LIES AS PLUTARCH INFORMS US. THE LETTERS WHO WAS SENDING TO PERSIAN KING HADN BEEN FOUND BY ALEXANDER IN PERSEPOLIS AS PLUTARCH, AN ANCIENT GREEK HISTORIAN, SAYS TOO.
Nicator
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Re: STRABON

Post by Nicator »

Hello,
It is kind of ironic that Demosthenes refers to the Macedonians as "barbarians"...even as he and his fellow politicians take payoffs from Macedon and Persia. I guess it was a sort of we'll call you whatever we feel like calling you in the public eye, but behind the Athenian public back we'll take your money and call you whatever you want to be called. I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same. On the bright side, at least they didn't pass legislation declaring the Macedonians to be Hellene...oh wait, they did do that didn't they?
later Nicator
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Alexander began, his grand plan, invoked...

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ruthaki
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Re: STRABON

Post by ruthaki »

It's pretty well established, I believe, that there was Persian money (and Athenian) behind Philip's assassination even though it was also blamed on Olympias. (Sure, maybe...she hated him!) Demosthenes was publishing a lot of pamphlets against the Macedonians, especially Alexander. But look how he ran when they took over! (I believe Plutarch, though he wrote about 150 yrs later) was pretty accurate according to what was known at the time. ruthaki
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marcus
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Re: STRABON

Post by marcus »

Prove it in a court of law, Ruth!I would say that it isn't 'established' at all, in fact... although I would say that the probability is high.All the bestMarcus
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Linda
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Re: STRABON

Post by Linda »

Arrian thinks it was just personal vengence on the part of Pausinas. Alexander pulls out the "and you killed my father" bit, when he is rejecting Darius's offer of settlement after Issus. Although it is a possibility Darius tried, it is not conclusive that he succeeded.I don't blame Demosthenes for hating Alexander and Philip - after all, they were trying to take over his city state. The man could write like an angel, and he also admired Alexander, as well as being against his political policies.There are a lot of his writings in the Perseus Digital Library. Beautiful - even in translation, which is all I can manage to read.
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Re: STRABON

Post by marcus »

Or, rather, Demosthenes *perceived* that Philip and Alexander were trying to take over his state. The way the two kings handled Athens would *suggest* that they didn't want to do that... whether or not they really wanted to or whether or not Demosthenes thought they did.All the bestMarcus
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Re: STRABON

Post by Nicator »

Hi Marcus,
I see you're in a good mood today :) Demosthenes was involved in the battle of Charonea, and remembered quite well how efficiently the Macedonians slaughtered the combined armies of Thebes and Athens. There was little doubt in his mind as to what was in store for Athens if the Macedonians came calling...regardless of what Philip and Alexander actually had in mind for them. From the Macedonian perspective, Philip was really interested in consolidating power as quickly and cheaply as possible. Perhaps he really wanted to take out Persia, but it's not clear just how ambitious he was, as he died before that plan (or smokescreen) came to fruition. Alexander may have had his eye on Persia since childhood when entertaining Persian guests back at Pella. His ambition seems to have been limitless, so perhaps Demosthenes had some legitimate worries, and was shaken to his core by the fateful meeting on the battlefield with Philip and Alexander. Philip certainly gave him reason to worry politically, by his constant game of bait and switch, but never seems to have wanted to take Athens out...only keep her in his pocket...like so much loot. Certainly if Philip wanted to sack Athens, this would have been the best time for the event. By not sacking Athens immediately after the battle, he put his own growing empire at risk. So I believe he sent a message to Athens by not sacking her that he preferred her vital but weakened. According to Renault, he wanted to be taken seriously by the Athenians, as something more than a barbarian, and this meant he had to win them over. Indeed the huge wedding reception, which saw his end, may have been one big posturing show for him in front of all important stateheads and foreign dignitaries to show the world that he was now on par with Athens.
later Nicator
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Thus, rain sodden and soaked, under darkness cloaked,
Alexander began, his grand plan, invoked...

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Re: STRABON

Post by marcus »

Darn it, Nick... I can't find fault with any of that posting . Nope, agree with everything you say there. I reckon that, had he wanted to, Philip could have completely crushed Athens after Chaeronea. Maybe he even wanted to (heck, I would have done were I in his position) but he was too consummate a politician to do so, for two reasons:(1) Athens' position in the Greek world was such that, had Philip taken the battle to their walls, he would have appeared the very *barbarian* that Demosthenes was accusing him of being.(2) Philip was already planning to take the war to Asia, and Athens was an important symbol of that war - as it was to avenge the burning of Athenian (and other Greek) temples by the PErsians. It wouldn't have looked good on Philip's CV had he crushed Athens and then hopped off to Asia to avenge the Persians' earlier crushing of the same...All the bestMarcus
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