The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipolis

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agesilaos
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by agesilaos »

the Musgrave Paper did nothing of the sort; let me refresh your memory. Bartisiokis' case was based on the assumption that the adult male had been burned 'unfleshed'. Musgrave et al demostrated that it is not possible to differentiate between a partially fleshed, ie rotting, corpse and a fully fleshed one. The conclusion is neutral, but Musgrave working to an agenda declares that since the prop of Bartiosokis' argument has gone the body was fully fleshed and thus Philip II which is fallacious; all one can say is that the identities cannot be separated on grounds of the type of cremation (though this reappears in the new analysis!). He also made the female older than Adea would have been but only withing a few years, so few as to make the finding within the range of growth rate differences.

The new evidence makes the woman 30 -34 too old for any known consort of either man but perfect for Kyannane, who seems to have been forgotten in favour of a wholly unknown Skythian unattested in the sources. Let's hope they re-examine the occupant of Tomb III's remains, if it turns out to be a young woman we will have proof that this is Kassandros' triple burial. The heroon would then attach itself to Tomb I and make that Amyntas who did have honours elsewhere; the finding of four babies and a neonate raise some questions they cannot belong to the woman found in the Tomb as the pregnancies would overlap, which is impossible, nor did the Macedonians hang on to their dead children like the Egyptians; they might be evidence of infanticide or high status infant mortality.

In the interest of completeness it has to be said that the circumstantial evidence does favour Philip II and that the objections of Philip III's proponents have been shown to be erroneous, as in the case of the barrel vault, or are not as clear cut as stated, Attic Salt cellars (largely style based). It would be nice if the new analysis could give a definitive answer but its agenda are already showing; as is clear from its 'definitive answer' :shock: :lol:

Amyntoros, 'was' is a verb not a preposition so carry on drinking it is not affeting your grammar :lol:

edited to reassure Amyntoros
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by delos13 »

Agesilaos wrote
the finding of four babies and a neonate raise some questions they cannot belong to the woman found in the Tomb as the pregnancies would overlap, which is impossible,
This is actually possible if babies belonged to the different wives of the same husband..... :D
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by agesilaos »

A run of rather bad luck though! - Unless someone was poisoning them! :shock: Olympias? Won't be able to tell until we get the toxicology reports and a Who song, 'I Can't Explain' ? :lol:
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by delos13 »

Of course, it's just a guess work.

Not necessarily a bad luck, children might have died over the course of many years and Philip had quite a few wives. Of course, it implies that children were buried first and later added to be in close proximity of Philip. Besides, we're so accustomed to pinning all the bad deeds on Olympias, who is to say that other wives were any better? Any of the wives would want her child to be next in line and they do anything to achieve it.
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by agesilaos »

There is no evidence of his other wives acting in this way, though; but Olympias may be the victim of post-mortem propaganda (demonstrating her unpopularity long after her death). I am also not sure the Macedonians cared much for still borns, exhumation goes against the Greek taboo on rotten flesh, unless these infants have been cremated, of course, which would speak to Philip's alleged lack of fertility; except the grave is meant to be that of Amyntas who was monogamous I think :?
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by Alexias »

Taphoi wrote: Well I'm seeing the bearded and wreathed charioteer (Hades?) with his body maybe facing away from us with a mantle draped over his right shoulder. His left arm maybe holding a flail and projected forward into the round patch of damage.
You're right. These pictures make it clearer http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/amphipolis-gre ... ll-1469773, but I can't make out what it is at his waist.

The horse's bright blue eye is weird though. I'm really beginning to think that 'Alexander's horses' is significant.
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by delos13 »

This collection of pictures is a beautiful summary of findings, thanks for posting this particular link, Alexias.

Third picture from the top (details of unknown man) seems to implicate that more of the mosaic hidden to the right, there are glimpses of colour, especially intriguing blue, to the right under the dirt. However, other pictures, showing this mosaic in full, prove that there is a wall to the right. It is as if right wall hides part of the mosaic. I wonder if it is possible that this is not a wall, per se, but the remains of dirt and more mosaic can be found to the right. The picture seems cut off, not complete.

Also, I have a question to everybody, I have no knowledge about mosaics in Greece of that period - is this bright blue colour of pebbles known to be used in other mosaics found in Greece? It looks like turquoise or blue chalcedony.
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by Alexias »

They haven't finished excavating the dirt covering the mosaic, although they've excavated further to the left than to the right. I don't know about the different stones, or whether the whole thing just needs cleaning. Is it me or does the bearded man appear to be showing his teeth, or is it just that the stones are cleaner?

Anyway, this is interesting in that the official site is showing the narrow door at the back of the chamber beyond the mosaic, leading to the potential 4th chamber http://www.theamphipolistomb.com/plan
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by gepd »

The bright blue is probably due to wrong settings of the camera/lighting, as discussed in several Greek blogs/forums. You can see that the photography scale is bluish, as many other parts of the photo, especially bottom right. So, I assume the eye is white.
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by delos13 »

Thanks, gepd, for clarifying about the blue. It makes sense but is it known for sure or just an educated guess? After all, there are a lot of white pebbles so something made those ones look blue (I mean, apart from bluish scale of the camera); different material used or special glaze?
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by Efstathios »

At this link that was posted http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/amphipolis-gre ... ll-1469773 look at the 8th picture where it shows the mosaic from an angle, the horse doesn't seem to have a blue eye, and you can see a hint of blue being cast in other places, so it's the camera.
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by delos13 »

Yes, you are right. Thanks for pointing out.
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by Zebedee »

Just a question for the numismatists, it's one I've asked Dorothy King too, but what sort of date would you be comfortable to infer from monograms on the peribolos? Sufficient to place us just in that late C4th/early C3rd period, or is there anything coming out of the mint at Amphipolis which would narrow it down further?
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by agesilaos »

The big question would be why would mint officials be inscribing their monograms on building material ? Dorothy seems to be implying they have found A-T and A-R monograms, though those she chose to picture are T-L or just possibly I-A-T; L-E , E-Y and R-Y appear on Kassandros' coins. If this is the alleged 'almost 100%' evidence it just is not, Dorothy seems to think that the monograms were used by Alexander yet illustrates them from posthumous issues, clearly not appreciating they actually represent mint officials; I would mention cobblers and lasts, but that would be somewhat harsh. Have they said what the monograms are yet, on her blog I could not make out anything other than the normal rough surface.

edited for spelling error
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipol

Post by Zebedee »

Thanks agesilaos, I was hoping you'd be able to add to my knowledge on this. I have to confess that my eyesight is now exceptionally poor and I cannot see the monograms on the peribolos. And that's a good question to which I can think of no answer - Dr.King suggests a parallel with the Temple of Athena at Troy, so that will form part of my education over the next few days. The suggestion of 'quality control' of some sort made elsewhere may work, perhaps in association with a central authority funding a project? But supposition piled on supposition?

Re. other evidence, there must be something strong to point towards a re-founding of Amphipolis by Alexander. But we shall see.
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