The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipolis

[Alexias]

This link gives some measurements http://www.theamphipolistomb.com/plan

[agesilaos]

Thank you, Callisto, I could not get a link to the article only live journal; still does not look Roman to me, the damage does look seismic though, time for caution with a capital C; still no clear evidence but let's hope they do not risk life, limb and, site due to public pressure. Pauline, please explain who G Despinas is, I have a feeling he had something to do with the Parthenon but cannot find him online.

[system1988]

Thank you, Callisto, I could not get a link to the article only live journal; still does not look Roman to me, the damage does look seismic though, time for caution with a capital C; still no clear evidence but let's hope they do not risk life, limb and, site due to public pressure. Pauline, please explain who G Despinas is, I have a feeling he had something to do with the Parthenon but cannot find him online.

He had something to do with EVERYTHING regarding Ancient Greek Sculpure.Some colleagues may explain better than me the work of the Professor -Archaeologist, indeed i want them please if possible to translate this: Δεν θα αναφερθώ στο συγγραφικό (μελέτες) ή στο παιδαγωγικό του έργο γιατί χρειάζονται σελίδες.Ήταν ο επιστήμονας που συνομιλούσε με τον Φειδία , τον Πραξιτέλη , τον Σκόπα τον Αγοράκριτο έτσι που γνωρίζοντας τους τοσο βαθειά ,όταν έβλεπε ένα τμήμα γλυπτού σε μουσείο ή απόθήκη στην π.χ Νέα Υόρκη σκεφτόταν "το υπόλοιπο τμήμα αυτού του γλυπτού το έχω δει πριν 25 χρόνια σε κείνη την μικρή αρχαιολογική αποθηκούλα, σε εκείνο το ξεχασμένο επαρχιακό μουσειάκι , στο τέταρτο ράφι δεξιά. Καιρός να τα ξαναενώσουμε !" Και έφερνε το γλυπτό (τρόπος του λέγειν) απο την Ν.Υ, έφερνε το επαρχιακό κομματάκι και -τι θαύμα ! -το έχω δει συντελείται μπροστά μου - ταίριαζαν.Και το γλυπτό ήταν πάλι ολόκληρο. Οπως πριν 2500 χιλιάδες χρόνια.Έτσι απλά.Τέταρτο ράφι δεξιά. ( Statue of Nemesis of Agorakritos, the stele of Porto Rafti etc etc...)

[Efstathios]

Δεν θα αναφερθώ στο συγγραφικό (μελέτες) ή στο παιδαγωγικό του έργο γιατί χρειάζονται σελίδες.Ήταν ο επιστήμονας που συνομιλούσε με τον Φειδία , τον Πραξιτέλη , τον Σκόπα τον Αγοράκριτο έτσι που γνωρίζοντας τους τοσο βαθειά ,όταν έβλεπε ένα τμήμα γλυπτού σε μουσείο ή απόθήκη στην π.χ Νέα Υόρκη σκεφτόταν "το υπόλοιπο τμήμα αυτού του γλυπτού το έχω δει πριν 25 χρόνια σε κείνη την μικρή αρχαιολογική αποθηκούλα, σε εκείνο το ξεχασμένο επαρχιακό μουσειάκι , στο τέταρτο ράφι δεξιά. Καιρός να τα ξαναενώσουμε !" Και έφερνε το γλυπτό (τρόπος του λέγειν) απο την Ν.Υ, έφερνε το επαρχιακό κομματάκι και -τι θαύμα ! -το έχω δει συντελείται μπροστά μου - ταίριαζαν.Και το γλυπτό ήταν πάλι ολόκληρο. Οπως πριν 2500 χιλιάδες χρόνια.Έτσι απλά.Τέταρτο ράφι δεξιά. ( Statue of Nemesis of Agorakritos, the stele of Porto Rafti etc etc...)

Translation:
I will not mention his writing (researches) or pedagogic work cause it would take many pages. He was the scientist that was "conversing" with Fidias, Praxitelis, Skopas the Agorakretos in such a way that he knew them so good that when he would see a piece of sculpture in a museum or warehouse in New York for example he would think "the rest of this sculpture i have seen 25 years ago in that small archaeologist's warehouse, in that forgotten rural small museum, in the fourth self on the right. Time to connect them back !" And he would bring the sculpture (in a manner of speaking) from N.Y, and he would also bring the little rural piece and, what a miracle! - i have seen it, it takes place in front of me - they matched. And the sculpture was whole again. Like 2.500 years ago. Just like that. Fourth self on the right. ( Statue of Nemesis of Agorakritos, the stele of Porto Rafti etc etc...)

[system1988]

Thank you very much Efstathios.
Pauline





About the role of Amphipolis in the past: Last will of Alexander ,building a temple in Amphipolis ( among other cities like Ilion etc). Diodorus.( if true )
Why Amphipolis ? Why this choise ? I wonder.

[Efstathios]

Mrs Peristeri spoke in the media today and said that the tomb is with certainty late 4th century b.c and that they have all the facts to back it up, and attacked the people saying that it could be Roman, and generally her colleagues that talk on the media wanting 5 mins of publicity. Also, they are working on securing the stability of the 3rd chamber, removing the sand in order to enter the 4th chamber, fully recovering the Karyatides, and removing the dirt from the top of the monument which reaches 14 meters high. Source: http://www.newsit.gr/ellada/amfipolh-pe ... ia-mnimeio

[agesilaos]

The climax is approaching; whilst i support the doubt that the edifice is Roman, I will await the proof of that last quarter of the Fourth Century date, stylistic grounds alone will not wash, and coins can only give a terminus post quem (intrusions excepted) and they stayed in circulation for centuries rather than decades! Still good to hear that despite the pressure work is proceeding sensibly and slowly, a collapse now would not just kill someone it would destroy the monument; maybe that should be the other way around The site archaeologists cannot blame others for speculating though since they are keeping all the finds to themselves (as usual, in Greece I think); naturally they want to publish first, but without information only partially informed speculation is left, and guess what, any controversial find will be subjected to claims of fraudulence (i trust the people on the site, but there are a mass of agit-prop nobodies waiting in the wings,sadly, and conspiracy theories are almost as popular as The Beatles ). From the radar imaging looks like there are other graves too... thanks to our Greek members and others for keeping the site up to speed

[Alexias]

And some more sphinxes (although in relief) fitting into triangular spaces. From Xanthos, Lycia dated to 460 BC in the British Museum

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[system1988]

Here is an update

http://www.lifo.gr/now/culture/52986

and in english

http://en.protothema.gr/

The entire statues in the tomb.They wear " kripides" . Color traces can be seen on the dresses as well as on the bases of the statues. The toes of the statues are very accurately crafted. The tomb is truly magnificent and monumental.

The head of the excavation insists that the tomb is of the late 4th century BC.

Enjoy!

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Pauline

[agesilaos]

Interesting, still nothing concrete, love the speculation about Deinokrates symbolism in Huffington, it's right 33 metres, he died at thirty-three...amazing... amazing that the muppet has not realised Alexander did not work in Metric!!! Feet and inches would have been better, at least they are Imperial

[system1988]

Interesting, still nothing concrete, love the speculation about Deinokrates symbolism in Huffington, it's right 33 metres, he died at thirty-three...amazing... amazing that the muppet has not realised Alexander did not work in Metric!!! Feet and inches would have been better, at least they are Imperial

I am sorry I don't quite understand. Perhaps I have missed some things....

Who is Huffington ? Do you think the statues are of Imperial era ?

There are critical indications pointing to the existence of a 4th chamber.

[agesilaos]

Sorry, there is a reference to an article in 'the Huffington Post' an online paper (might be a link from the main page

Alexander the Great. Mainstream archaeologists have been cautious in their comments, stating that the only thing we know for sure is that the tomb is for someone close to the warrior king. Until now, Alexander is thought to be buried in Alexandria, Egypt, however some archaeologists, are taking this view one step further by stating that it could be the tomb of the ancient king himself. The burial monument required thousands of tons of marble mining and needed a huge amount of money indicating that the person that the tomb was intended for was an ancient VIP. The architect is believed to be Deinocrates, a close friend of Alexander the Great, who followed him on his campaign to Egypt. The tomb as an Egyptian influence as it is the only one of its type found in Greece to contain a sand sealing filled in to prevent tomb raiders from entering. Best-selling author Alexandra Symeonidou writes about the number symbolisms used by Deinocrates in the tomb in the Huffington post pointing to the fact that the architect used number symbolisms eg. Alexander the Great died when he was 33 years of age and the tomb is 33 meters high, it is 497 meters and the Macedonian Kingdom became part of the kingdom of Greece in 495 BC, the lion was a symbol of Alexander and hence the lion of Amphipolis. Archaeologist Sarantos Kargakos is perhaps the most prominent supporter of this theory. “Olympias (Alexander the Great’s mother) would not have left the dead body of her son,” he says, adding that she never even went to Babylong to see the relic of her son nor did she watch the transfer of the body from Babylon to Alexandria.

And, no I am firmly in the Hellenistic camp, though early/mid third rather than late fourth century (itself the imposition of modern divisions) but Alexander was 'Imperial' in that he had an Empire, and the measurements of feet and incehes are too (from the British Empire), it was a bad and confusing joke, apologies; even if we try to analyse the dimensions in Greek measures we would be faced with a choice of Attic, Egyptian etc standards but metres have no place in ancient symbolism.

[Zebedee]

The Huffington Post series of articles read like a bad parody of what Lafantzis suggested some time ago regarding aspects of the mound perhaps reflecting aspects of Alexandria. Whether Lefantzis will be proven correct with his idea of there being a link is another matter again.

If that is a fourth door in the third chamber, then would it be reasonable to suggest that it looks like the position of the door is hinting at the tomb having another level? Rather than tombs (plural, as suggested in the 15 year old seismic topography results) are we actually looking at quite a sizable complex of chambers over two levels?

Do wonder whether this is a 'tomb' as such or something more related with cultic activity (with or without a burial at its heart). Noticed both Dorothy King and Olga Palagia have picked up on the weathering on the initial chamber, odd in itself, especially combined with those steep stairs going down.

I do find the position of the mound rather peculiar in some ways. The map below is from Koukouli-Chrysanthaki's Excavating Classical Amphipolis. The mound is at B, with a posited ancient road heading inland (to Dyrama/Drama via Palaiokomi) next to it and old Ennea Odoi to the other side.



Nothing says 'our's now' quite like a giant marble lion on top of a very large mound I guess?

[Efstathios]

This was made by a greek painter and it's easy to see the analogies. It is 20 meters up to the 3rd chamber and the total width is 160 meters. So there could be many chambers, and maybe another level too for that matter. It has also been suggested that there may be other entrances too, something that they are looking at by cleaning the place from dirt.

The latest info is that a door leading to a 4th chamber has been discovered and that they are going to enter the third chamber by the door when they remove the sand. From the drawing it would make sense that there could be chambers leading all the way to the middle.

[Taphoi]

I expect others will have disparate views, but I am suggesting that the caryatids are Klodones, priestesses of Dionysus with whom Olympias famously consorted. See http://www.mediterraneoantiguo.com/2014 ... at-in.html There are Roman copies of 4th century BC statues of Dionysus, where he is accompanied by a priestess looking rather like the caryatids (one even seems to be wearing those shoes).
Best wishes,
Andrew