The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipolis

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Efstathios
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipolis

Post by Efstathios »

Back in November they said they found coins from the 3rd century A.D, which had to be outside of the chambers since they now said that they were sealed during the 2nd century B.C. The study of the findings continues, and certain things may change. However the initial dating of the tomb hasn't. Mrs Peristeri insists on the last quarter of the 4th century B.C. And while archaeologists in the site have several findings in their hands (we haven't seen the rest of the iconography by the way) people outside can just speculate, not only about the dating but also about the occupants of the tomb. The Olympias scenario as well as others, are on the table, but at this point they are just speculations. Don't forget that there was a cremated body, and the remains of a pyre found, so that gives us a hint that this may have been the original burial. And if the tomb was indeed sealed during the 2nd century B.C, then all the decoration that we see inside, the karyatids, the mosaic e.t.c. were made at the Hellenistic era, and probably at the same time as the construction of the monument.
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipolis

Post by Taphoi »

agesilaos wrote:BUT C14 dates will not tell her when the sealing walls went up; since this is the only data she has changed clearly it is not based on C14 dating.
There appears to be nothing else that her revision of the sealing date could be based on. The hypothesis is that the archaeological team has been handed a set of C-14 results for the bones and for the fill with date distributions that all terminate in the 2nd century BC. The latest date of material in the fill would actually be likely to date the sealing. Hence it would be very tempting to conclude from C-14 distributions from organic matter in the fill (e.g. the infamous swan bones) that terminate in the 2nd century BC that the tomb was sealed in the 2nd century BC. That would be a subtle mistake, but I think that that is what she must have done. As I have shown, such distributions would actually date the sealing to between 325BC and 200BC. If the sealing had actually occurred in the 2nd century BC, she would now have C-14 results from the fill with distributions extending into the 1st century BC, so she would not have been able to assert a 2nd century BC sealing. Unless you believe that she does not have C-14 results for the fill, it is virtually inevitable that the C-14 results give a terminus ante quem of 200BC otherwise they would have prevented her making her statement in her recent letter that the tomb was sealed in the 2nd century BC. This is not speculation - it is logic.
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipolis

Post by agesilaos »

No it is speculation; constructed logically but based on an assumption. We have not even been told that every bit of organic matter withing the fill has been sent for testing, we have not even been told what state the famous swan was in; was it totally skeletised or did it retain feathers, only in the latter case will it speak to the date of the fill. C14 testing is not free, so what we might expect is yet another statement based on a knee-jerk reaction to incomplete data. When you start with a supposition what follows is speculation,
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipolis

Post by Zebedee »

Taphoi wrote: There appears to be nothing else that her revision of the sealing date could be based on.
That's the point I'd query really - just because you don't know, doesn't make it so. In fact, it tend to lead me to think that there is something which dates the sealing event itself as dating from the remains in no way provides a dating for the sealing wall. Even dating from the fill may not provide that - though it's far more likely to provide a decent point to start from, one still needs that range narrowed from the other side of the wall.

Someone seems to be posting articles in your name on Greek Reporter, Andrew. Seems to hint at someone pillaging this thread for information without the common courtesy of even acknowledging the source materials used. Poor show by the person responsible passing off knowledge of recent papers as their own/your's without even the courtesy to properly cite the paper. I'll let the fact that whoever's responsible for the writing has sourced an image from a paper which is about the success of looking at the big picture to overcome problems with dating the period 800 bc to 200 bc, without taking that onboard whatsoever, speak for itself. http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/08 ... olis-tomb/
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipolis

Post by gepd »

Well my opinion is that K. Peristeri is extremely careless in her public statements, written or oral. There are too many examples of that already - I am personally very cautious. Don't be surprised if the statements for the sealing change again soon. You may have missed that in her written statement, K. Peristeri also noted that "...as we have announced in the first report of our results in November 2014...", and then goes on to say that they referred to a 2nd century BC sealing. So according to her, that was their opinion in 2014, and that is what they reported back then.

That's completely inaccurate, as in the presentation of Nov. 2014 they (she and the architect) said almost ten times that sealing happened in late Roman times. In her recent statement she also talks about "the last Macedonians" referring to the 2nd century BC Macedonians. In the November 2014 event she was using this term for the last Macedonians of the roman empire...

So, my suggestion: be patient and avoid interpolations
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipolis

Post by agesilaos »

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/09 ... ssibility/

Looks like there may be some funding but Peresteris is hospitalised, hopefully the release of any results will not be delayed; and she will make a speedy recovery.
When you think about, it free-choice is the only possible option.
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipolis

Post by Zebedee »

agesilaos wrote:http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/09 ... ssibility/

Looks like there may be some funding but Peresteris is hospitalised, hopefully the release of any results will not be delayed; and she will make a speedy recovery.
Sad news. Hope she's ok.
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipolis

Post by system1988 »

According to local press mrs Peristeri is healthy and has returned to her post.
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipolis

Post by Taphoi »

agesilaos wrote:
kastas3-thumb-large-958x510.jpg
The trouble is that this is the peribolos in situ and it is not like Millar's reconstruction, it is clearly square cut with faux tiles.
Since you had a bit of difficulty discerning it previously, here is a newly published photo where the geison soffit profile under the crowning blocks of the peribolos wall is fairly clearly revealed and indeed matches the Millers' published version of it.
Image
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipolis

Post by Zebedee »

system1988 wrote:According to local press mrs Peristeri is healthy and has returned to her post.
Thanks system.

----

Fantastic pic.
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipolis

Post by agesilaos »

Now that you can see the geison you can compare it with your drawing on page 57 and the various profiles; rather more than six degrees of separation methinks. :lol:
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipolis

Post by gepd »

By the way, the Google Earth photo of Kastas is also updated

Image
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipolis

Post by Taphoi »

agesilaos wrote:Now that you can see the geison you can compare it with your drawing on page 57 and the various profiles; rather more than six degrees of separation methinks. :lol:
It is not my drawing. It is the profile published by the Millers in 1972. The full profile is on page 58 above. Page 57 only has a detail. The new photo and the full profile match to within the limitations of the photo.
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipolis

Post by Taphoi »

gepd wrote:By the way, the Google Earth photo of Kastas is also updated

Image
That's excellent. It makes it quite clear that the tomb faced the Acropolis of ancient Amphipolis. It makes it clear that the peribolos is circular to a high degree of accuracy. Shame about the camera symbol on the foundations of the lion monument.
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Re: The Sphinxes Guarding the Lion Tomb Entrance at Amphipolis

Post by Sandra »

Thanks for updates! It is very quit in English language sites.... Hoped that there will be some analysis done already, but no indication on that.
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