Who had superior numbers at Granicus, Issus and Gaugamela?

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Hando
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Who had superior numbers at Granicus, Issus and Gaugamela?

Post by Hando »

Hi, I am new to the forum and wanted reliable answers so I came here. I looked at what Wikepia says about the number of troops on both the Macedonian and Persian sides at Granicus, Issus and Gaugamela and am confused.
1)Wikepedia says Macedonians outnumbered the Persians at Granicus. Is this true?

2)Wikepedia says that at the battle of Issus the Macedonians had 40,850 troops while Persians had 50,000-100,000. But pothos (http://www.pothos.org/content/index.php ... or-battles) states that the historian Delbruck states the Macedonians had 30,000 (Fuller, Delbrück) to the Persian's 25,000 (Delbrück). If Delbruck is correct this means the Macedonians had 5,000 more troops than the Persians! Is this possible that the Macedonians outnumbered the Persians? I always thought the Persians outnumbered the Macedonians at Issus...

3) Wikepida says that at the battle of Gaugamela, the Macedonians had 47,000 troops and the Persians had 34,000 to 100,000. This means that if we take the lower number the Macedonians with 47,000 far outnumbered the Persian's 34,000! Apparently this figure of 34,000 was arrived at by the historian EW Marsden. I always thought the Persians outnumbered the Macedonians at Gaugamela, but according to Marsden the opposite is true. What is your opinion?

Thank you
Hando
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Re: Who had superior numbers at Granicus, Issus and Gaugamel

Post by Hando »

Could anyone care to answer my questions? I've tried google for hours and I've reread Robin Lane Fox but he doesn't provide hard numbers for Issos and Gaugamela. I'd much appreciate it.
Thanks
Alexias
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Re: Who had superior numbers at Granicus, Issus and Gaugamel

Post by Alexias »

There are others far better qualified than me to answer, but this is what I found out:

Nicholas Hammond:

Granicus

Parmenion on the left:
Greek cavalry: 2,400
Thracian cavalry: 150
3 brigades of phalangites: 4,500 = 7,050

Alexander on the right:
Argranians and Archers: 1,000
Companion cavalry: 1,800
Paeonian cavalry: 150
Lancers: 600
Hypaspists: 3,000
3 brigades of phalangites: 4,500 = 11,050

Total = 18,100

He gives the Persians as 20,000 Greek infantry and 20,000 Persian cavalry = 40,000

These sound like estimates, and no Persian infantry?

Issus

Alexander: 5,300 cavalry and 26,000 infantry = 31,300
He doesn't give a figure for the Persians, except to say that the army was much larger and the established figure for their losses was 110,000. The point appears to be that the Persian numbers are not known, except for special units such as Darius's Royal Cavalry Guard of 3,000. However, judging by the size of some of the units which escaped - a large Persian unit defeated by Antigonus, and 2 groups of Greek mercenaries of 4,000 and 8,000, it was much bigger than Alexander's.

Gaugamela

Alexander's figures
cavalry: 7,000
infantry: 12,000
second line infantry: 18,000
special units: 7,000
Thracians guarding 2 camps: 1,000
grooms: 2,000
= 44,000 + 3,000
Again, he doesn't give figures for the Persians.
Hando
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Re: Who had superior numbers at Granicus, Issus and Gaugamel

Post by Hando »

Thank you.
1)Your figures for Granicus come as a surprise to me because Hammond claims Persians outnumbered the Macedonians by roughly 2:1.
Macedonians : 18.100 Persians : 40,000 (without Persian Infantry figures.)
However, Wikepedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Granicus) says there were 47,000 Macedonians and 24,500 Persians. That's the total opposite of Hammond. Why is there this completely contradictory discrepancy?

2)Regarding Issos, Robin Lane Fox says there were 35,000 Macedonians but does not give figures for the Persians. Am I right?

3)Regarding Gaugamela, does Hammond say the Persians outnumbered the Macedonians?
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Re: Who had superior numbers at Granicus, Issus and Gaugamel

Post by agesilaos »

1/ Hammond decides that Alexander left a large part of his army behind at Graneikos, which is twaddle, based on the fact that these contingents, cerainly the League troops, do not get mentioned in the narrative but that is not uncommon as the second echelon troops are not the main players. He further blindly accepts the figures for the Persians given by Arrian (Diodoros has a different battle with infantry and an early morning crossing of the river unopposed), in part this will be because he believed that Arrian's source, Ptolemy, was working from the Ephemerides or Journal. Strange, then that he later decides the numbers given at Issos and Gaugamela are excessive but accepts them here. Wikipedia is taking its numbers from a more modern source, possibly Delbruck, but it is generally accepted that Arrian's figures are too high for a satrapal force, 20,000 Greeks are probably more than the Great King had at Issos! It is likely Alexander did enjoy numerical superiority here.

I' have to check the other questions
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Re: Who had superior numbers at Granicus, Issus and Gaugamel

Post by Paralus »

Agesilaos is correct re Hammond. The great man was prone to leaps of logic not exactly based in practicality. One of his best was Eumenes' 'hypaspists' (or more correctly "the men from/of the hypaspists") at Paraetecene. Hammond, based on the linguistics alone, asserts these were the sons of Alexander's hypaspists. Apparently they'd all made their way from Macedonia at some stage and joined those sons of the camp. All were magically of military age in 317 and all numbered, funnily enough, 3,000.
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Hando
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Re: Who had superior numbers at Granicus, Issus and Gaugamel

Post by Hando »

Thank you both Agesilaos and Paralus.
Agesialaos, I will await your answers to the other two questions.
Paralus, also what is your opinion on both Alexander's and Darius' troop strength at Gaugamela?
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