Have archaeologists discovered the grave of Alexander?

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agesilaos
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Re: Have archaeologists discovered the grave of Alexander?

Post by agesilaos »

The Roman Church has tested a few relics, there are scientists at the Vatican, so an examination might be possible. In Andrew's theory. though, the body is smuggled out of Muslim Alexandria under a mountain of pork; the consequent infusion of the relic with ninth century pork juices would render C40 testing fraught with error, isotopic testing could reveal the geographic origins of the remains which could rule Alexander out if it transpired it was a middle Easterner. There was more than one mummy with Macedonian roots that the faithful could have appropriated.

I am not convinced by his ideas (suprise, suprise); at the time the christians of Alexandria seem to have been a particularly fanatical bunch much worse than the Taliban, they tore the pagan temples down and the mathematician Hypatia apart. It is difficult to imagine any of them wanting to save Alexander's corpse, nor any pagan being mistaken for a christian and cunningly passing the famous body off as that of St Mark. More likely having destroyed the Soma and the accompanying Tombs of the Ptolemies in a riot, sometime down the line one of the faithful found the dessicated remains of some Lagid that had escaped and pronounced it St Mark on the basis of a mistaken iconography (is he not associated with a lion?). Alexander's body was not wrapped and had been on public view for centuries, I think it unlikely that it would not be recognised for what it was. Nicholas Saunders suggests that the body went West into the desert and was reburied which seems a more likely scenario but the evidence is circumstantial at its strongest.
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Re: Have archaeologists discovered the grave of Alexander?

Post by ruthaki »

Yes actually I think that the archaeologist or scholar who wrote about his body being in Italy mentioned the St Mark's tomb in Venice. Makes sense and sort of follows the theme of that strange dream I had.
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Re: Have archaeologists discovered the grave of Alexander?

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agesilaos wrote:It is difficult to imagine any of them wanting to save Alexander's corpse, nor any pagan being mistaken for a christian and cunningly passing the famous body off as that of St Mark.
Difficult yes - unless you believe that the whole story began with the "loving half-brother" hijacking the corpse "to keep faith" with his dead king to whom he "owed a debt of honour". Romantic fiction presented as "history".
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ruthaki
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Re: Have archaeologists discovered the grave of Alexander?

Post by ruthaki »

Or, the Macedonians believing whoever held the body, held the power. And that so long as the Macedonian kings were buried at Aigai their dynasty would last. (Which Alexander's didn't because he wasn't buried there.) Etc Etc. Who really knows for sure. The histories were written hundreds of years later and those that had managed to survive from Alexander's time were likely slanted to favour the writer.
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Re: Have archaeologists discovered the grave of Alexander?

Post by Nicator »

I'm partial to Ruthaki's 'Vatican internment dream' theory. If it's possible that his corpse has been interred and preserved, Few other organizations that I know of would have that kind of longevity or will to carry it out.
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ruthaki
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Re: Have archaeologists discovered the grave of Alexander?

Post by ruthaki »

Certainly an interesting theory. I will continue to wonder. Meanwhile, my novel is coming out next August and Ptolemy continues to medtitate over Alexander's sarcophagus in the Soma of Alexandrea.
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Re: Have archaeologists discovered the grave of Alexander?

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agesilaos
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Re: Have archaeologists discovered the grave of Alexander?

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Looks like a hoax to me; if you google his name you can get a close up of one of the statues which looks like a bad modern prop spray painted, nor does the context look true, no dust and a sarcophagos that looks more like a christmas decoration! If he is claiming that that is Alexander's he would have done better had he read some history; Ptolemy the Umpteenth melted the golden sarcophagos done to pay his troops, and replaced it with a glass or crystal one, oops :roll:

Welcome to the forum, the dicontinuity between your avatar(an Indian maid?) and your name (the hairy wildman in Gilgamesh's Epic) is rather amusing.
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Re: Have archaeologists discovered the grave of Alexander?

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Umm.. she's persian. Just a fictional drawing. Being a woman, when I think of Enkidu the harlot who tried to seduce him always comes to mind. I like to imagine she looked among the lines of this orginal character.


That makes another person who tells me it's all false. I had hope and contacted the guy who is in charge of all that, here is what he told me:


"The mummy of Alexander and the others are in PERFECT condition. As well as Ptholome I, Cleopatra and Marcus Antonius... The most important books of the Library of Alexandria and sooooo much more. All is documented with photo's and video. Even photo's of Alexander in his golden sarcophagus. Information will be released very soon to the public."

"The whole expedition is under very high confidentiality conditions and the authorization is very strict! Sorry."


"There's no dust because the tomb was sealed airtight! We don't care if people don't believe it!!"
ruthaki
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Re: Have archaeologists discovered the grave of Alexander?

Post by ruthaki »

Somehow I doubt that new 'find' is true. I'm still inclined to wonder if it is hiding in some part of Italy (St Marks? the Vatican?) otherwise, it's likely under the sea along with Cleopatra's palace and all the rest of old Alexandria.
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Re: Have archaeologists discovered the grave of Alexander?

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Very much the latter I'd think. Too much credulous hope invested in all the rest.
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Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.

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agesilaos
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Re: Have archaeologists discovered the grave of Alexander?

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Well the ancients were incapable of hermetically sealing anything for two thousand years, and any allegeed archaeologist who cannot spell Ptolemaios is immediately suspect; and whilst Alexander was worshipped as a God, the divinity of the later Ptolemies was not so precious and that of Marcus Antonius an open joke, even Antonius seems to have considered it a whimsey, why would these be moved along with Alexander? Simples, peolple have heard of them, which, I suspect, is why the Library makes its entrance, as fakes go this is pretty basic.

Enkidu a harlot? Whom did she tempt? Alexander? Enkidu is a masculine name (the feminine equivalent would be Enkidatu, or similar; Akkadian forms feminine noune by adding a 't' 'at' or 'et' but the vowel can vary). I can only plead that the Persian picture is Safavid, I think and that their art was heavily influenced by that of the Moghuls in India (or am I too pulling your leg :D ).

One has to consider when Alexander's body was supposedly moved, it was still in Alexandria about 390 and was probably moved (if it was) to protect it from the kind of christian fanaticism that destroyed the Serapeion and tore Hypatia limb from limb. A move through Christian Syria to the Lebanon, with treasure, three other bodies and carts of books would be difficult for the authorities to miss.
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Re: Have archaeologists discovered the grave of Alexander?

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You misunderstand. I was talking about the harlot that tried seducing Enkidu when he was on his way to King Gilgamesh.

It is not supposed to be Safavid - she merely used the Persians appearances we know today for her drawing of a princess that's supposed to have lived during Gilgamesh's days.

And if anyone else doesn't believe it is true, please give reasons. I am really starting to doubt it more and more, because some reasons that have been given made sense to me. And I do trust people who are experienced in the field. I still won't call it complete haox just yet though. I am not that kind of person.

Who knows about the misspelling. He might have made a typo, like your "peolple " there.

I agree though, the info you find about him when googling his name is suspicious.

Then a question, most of you believe his tomb is at St Mark's in Venice right? Shouldn't some of us go there and start looking/testing?
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Re: Have archaeologists discovered the grave of Alexander?

Post by ruthaki »

I believe it is just a 'supposition' that his body could have been moved to Rome (St Mark's? Who knows?) mainly because it was revered and visited by Caesar etc etc and after I had that dream, I myself began to wonder if that might possibly be true. Remember there was a belief that whoever held the body, held the power. And, by the way, was there ever any evidence that it was still in Alexandria at the time of the burning of the library etc?
agesilaos
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Re: Have archaeologists discovered the grave of Alexander?

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There is one trheory that the body was moved to St Mark's by the Venetians after the early pagans had disguised the identity of the corpse; I do not personally believe this, but it is a possibility. Another theory has the body taken West past Ammon, either has more credibility than the one advanced by this chap; the body remains in the first (a problem for me but not impossible) and in the second only the mummy is moved: a much easier task than a whole convoy. I doubt most of the community subscribe to either theory but I venturethat they would rank these more of a possibilty than an airtight tomb in Jordan.

OK, I am not very up on Gilgamesh, it has been a very long time since I read it, might have confused my Persian dynasties too I think the Savafids fought the Ottoman turks in the Renaissance c 1400 - 1700, not really my era in the East. If you remain uncertain consider any other ancient tomb, the pyramids were full of dustand it is not just the wind that drags it in but any water too. Typos, a possibility but do you not think that Pth-ol-om-e looks like a cod attempt at an Egyptian name?
Ptoth springs to mind as a sort of model; P, T and H are quite well separated on a keyboard.
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