Alexander's tomb and the biggest archaiological concealment.

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Efstathios
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Alexander's tomb and the biggest archaiological concealment.

Post by Efstathios »

Mrs Soulvatzi recently gave an interview explaining a lot of things, and it is just unbelievable how far this thing goes. The interview is in Greek, and i will try to sub it as soon as i have time. For those that know Greek it is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBVcgBza ... r_embedded

For those that don't, a summary: The excavations began at the late 80's at Siwa, with private funding and with nothing to do with the Greek ministry of Culture, based on the premise that Ptolemy took Alexander's body there, as per Alexander's wish to be buried at the oasis. As a Pharaoe he had to choose his burial site, and as he hought of himself as son of Ammon Zeus, he chose Siwa. The monument was uncovered almost immediately as it was under a "toumba" of sand, like it was screaming i am here, find me. Same thing as with the Royal tombs in Vergina. Slowly and year after year a large part of the tomb was uncovered. It was established that it was a tomb and a hellenic - macedonian one because of various things like the hellenic - macedonian style, the numerous lion statues that were found (one of them is big and is very similar to the lion of Chaeronea) and of course the famous inscriptions in ancient Greek. But the fact that made Mrs soulvatzi believe that it's Alexander's tomb is not only the location, but the fact that it is huge. The main chamber is over 500 square meters and in comparison the biggest tomb in Greece is that of Philip at Vergina with around 40 square meters. It has a "propylon" which is the room after the main entrance, where an ëstia" was found, the place for the fire which was to be used for ceremonies. Of course the room that possibly holds the body is below ground, below the big main chamber.

And as they were ready to go ahed and dig further to the underground chambers, a message came (they didn't even have phones over there) that the excavation should be stopped imediately. The interesting part. The message was not from the Greek central archaiological council, which had no authority of what was going on at Egypt, but from the prime minister himself, mr. Simitis. He send the message through the ambassador at Egypt, the late mr. Moskov, and ordered the Egyptian goverment to hault Mrs' Soulvatzis' excavation.

After Mrs. Soulvatzi returned to Greece she looked for answers. Here is where it is getting even more interesting. The former minister of external affairs mr. Pagkalos told Mrs. Soulvatzi that the hault was in irder not to raise the patriotic spirit of the Greek people, and to keep things low! It was the same time in 95-96 when the big marches with millions of people were going on in the large cities of Greece against the Skopjan claims at Macedonia e.t.c. Anyway, after some years and when that goverment (Pasok) left and came the new one ( New Democracy) Mrs Soulvatzi repeatedly asked for permission to continue the excavations. The initial response was "wait after the Olympic Games" (2004). After the games she contacted the vice-minister of Culture mr. Tatoulis and he promised that he would give the green light. Time passed and nothing happened. Shortly after that mr. Tatoulis was ceased from his position and then Mrs Soulvatzi approached him and asked him what really happened. He then said that he did try to give the go, but he hit a wall. When he was asked which wall was that, he did not answer. But suspicions are that it was above the President himself which at that time was mr. Kostas Karamanlis. Till now, she is still trying to get someone to send a message to the Egyptian goverment and be able to continue the excavations.

Another interesting fact. While she was at Siwa, the Israeli ambasador at Egypt stopped by with full escort to see the excavation. He then told Mrs. Soulvatzi that Alexander was a gay drunk man and that he bowed before the Jewish God. Mrs Soulvatzi, responded back, saying that Alexander coulnd't have made all the things that he did, while tied to these kind of passions. And also informed him that the rest was false, written by a Hebrew historian Flavius Iossipus, and that Alexander never went to Jerusalem. The Israeli Ambassador then responded that she was brave but this could be a problem for her, and that the tomb of Alexander would not only be an important thing for Egypt, but for the whole world.

it's clear that a lot went under the tables, not only in Greece. In my oppinion this is the tomb of Alexander, or at least it was prepared for that reason. That is without doubt judging by the findings. Whether or not his body is there, we won't know unless someone gives the go ahead for the excavation to be resumed. But some people do not want that, and for this i have some theories, especially now and with what's going on in Greece, and with the corrupted - marionettes politicians. The "official response" that it was a bad timing with all that Skopjan thing, is just bull***** in my oppinion. Bigger things are in stake here.
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Re: Alexander's tomb and the biggest archaiological concealm

Post by athenas owl »

:shock:

Oh dear. I'd suggest some judicious editing.
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Re: Alexander's tomb and the biggest archaiological concealm

Post by spitamenes »

Is there any photographic evidence of anything that mrs. Soulvatzi has claimed? or are the people believing this taking only her word for it? I remember reading about this awhile ago and it seemed at that time she was making some serious claims but saying we just gotta basically take her word for it that its there. ( :) ) ok then,... good luck with that...
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Re: Alexander's tomb and the biggest archaiological concealm

Post by spitamenes »

Has anyone made a trip to Siwa since these excavations took place? Is there anything at all that would suggest a tomb, even A temporary or abandoned tomb of Alexander? I would think that any sign of Alexanders tomb at Siwa would spark a major international excavation. Egypt would most surely welcome it. Greece would welcome it. I don't see any benefits of it being covered up. Unless there's nothing there to cover up. Maybe someone was running out of funds and needed a front page story to resume another season of digging?
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Efstathios
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Re: Alexander's tomb and the biggest archaiological concealm

Post by Efstathios »

There are numerous photos on the web of the tomb, if you google "Siwa Alexander tomb" and go to pictures you will see them. I read in one site that they dissmised the theory that it's Alexander's tomb although the style and writings and findings are hellenic - macedonian, but it may be a Macedonian General's one. Well this is just ridiculous. A Macedonian General's tomb in Siwa? Where Alexander wanted to be buried? And that big? Sorry, but i see a lot of concealement going on.

The findings that were outside like the statues of lions e.t.c are held into chambers at Egypt, while the area of the tomb is under watch by the Egyptians. Unfortunately as time passes by the monument degrades, at least the outside features. But it is there. Mrs Soulvatzi in my oppinion did not need any funding and did not ask for it. The funding was private, not from the Greek ministry of culture. She is ready to go there as soon as the Greek goverment gives the green light to the Egyptian, or at least that is what she is saying.

As for why there are not any other archaiologists from around the world digging there, it probably has to do with all the backround that went on in '96. I do not know what it is, aside from the things that Mrs Soulvatzi revealed, and she wouldn't be lying or the persons that she spoke of, the former Prime Minister, Minister of external affairs e.t.c would respond accordingly. But that did not happened, and Mrs Soulvatzi has said these things on national tv in various shows up until now. No one came to prove her wrong.

Yet again ask yourselves this important question. A big tomb has been found in Egypt, and aside of it being Alexander's or not, there are no excavations being made since 96. There are many more things to be revealed there, so why hasn't anyone done anything? Big hellec - macedonian tomb in Siwa and no one does nothing further? All the other findings at Egypt are being fuly excavated and researched and prepared for people to go and see them, but not this one. You people here at this forum, should be excited that such a tomb has been found and is laying there considering the fact that we have numerous posts and discussions about the tombs at Vergina and whose remains are which, and they are much smaller tombs. And you should be anrgy that no further digging is being done. But i don't see any excitement at all. Yet there is much specculation about Alexander being in St. Marcus at Venice, still this tomb in Siwa which should be a hot topic, is not. No disrespect intented at you Andrew and your work. We should all research a bit more about things that are in front of our eyes.

By the way, i believe that this is Alexander's tomb, not knowing if the body is there or not, but of course i leave an open window to a possibility that Mrs Soulvatzi indeed was out of funding e.t.c.and this may be nothing, but yet again, we have a large hellenic - macedonian tomb at Siwa, how could this be nothing, or not applicable for further excavations???
"Hence we will not say that Greeks fight like heroes, but that heroes fight like Greeks."
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Re: Alexander's tomb and the biggest archaiological concealm

Post by spitamenes »

I understand your excitement. And id be the first guy on my block to run around like a loony yellin all about it if and when it does show up. But I think the lack of excitement is due to the fact that there are no outside independant sources telling us this IS his tomb. We just have to take her word for it. The pictures are fine, and although a macedonian tomb at Siwa that is not Alexanders is unlikely, its not impossible. But again, if there IS a coverup, or conspiracy, then our independant assurance won't come easily. I do respect your viewpoint though.
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Re: Alexander's tomb and the biggest archaiological concealm

Post by agesilaos »

http://www.archaeology.org/online/featu ... /tomb.html

try this link; it ought to calm your fears of conspiracy. The only foul play is the nonsense spoken by this damned woman. :twisted:
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Re: Alexander's tomb and the biggest archaiological concealm

Post by spitamenes »

agesilaos wrote:http://www.archaeology.org/online/featu ... /tomb.html

try this link; it ought to calm your fears of conspiracy. The only foul play is the nonsense spoken by this damned woman. :twisted:
:D :D
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Re: Alexander's tomb and the biggest archaiological concealm

Post by system1988 »

agesilaos wrote:http://www.archaeology.org/online/featu ... /tomb.html

try this link; it ought to calm your fears of conspiracy. The only foul play is the nonsense spoken by this damned woman. :twisted:

I agree with the text your link led to. Conspiracy for what though? In case the tomb of Alexander the Great was discovered Egypt would simply drown in a touristic invasion without peer, and Greek world (and not only) would become delighted and moved. Anyway, I would like to add one more thing.
I went to siwa.com and I saw an inscription. I do not know whether it was a part of the original monument or it was added later on but I date it back to the Imperial Roman era.
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Re: Alexander's tomb and the biggest archaiological concealm

Post by ruthaki »

I wonder, if he was buried in that tomb, how come during the time of Cleopatra and Julius Caesar it was claimed his body was on display in Alexandria?
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Re: Alexander's tomb and the biggest archaiological concealm

Post by marcus »

ruthaki wrote:I wonder, if he was buried in that tomb, how come during the time of Cleopatra and Julius Caesar it was claimed his body was on display in Alexandria?
Hi ruthaki, welcome back - it's been a while since you've been with us.

All I can say in response to your questions is: why indeed? :D

Perhaps that's why the excavations have closed down, and no-one seems to want to have anything to do with them ... because the claims are nonsense ... :shock:

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Re: Alexander's tomb and the biggest archaiological concealm

Post by spitamenes »

The more I read about this lady, the less I want to read about her.
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Re: Alexander's tomb and the biggest archaiological concealm

Post by abm »

agesilaos wrote:http://www.archaeology.org/online/featu ... /tomb.html

try this link; it ought to calm your fears of conspiracy. The only foul play is the nonsense spoken by this damned woman. :twisted:
This is a good account indeed, but it is unfortunate that it starts with a few lines of nonsense:
Alexander the Great, dying at Babylon on the banks of the Euphrates River in June of 323 B.C., was explicit in his last wish. He wanted his body thrown into the river so that his corpse would disappear. In that way, Alexander reasoned, his survivors might perpetuate the myth that he was whisked off to heaven in order to spend eternity at the side of the god Ammon, who had allegedly fathered him.
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Re: Alexander's tomb and the biggest archaiological concealm

Post by spitamenes »

Where does that "nonsense" come from? I know I've read that before somewhere. Or something very close to it anyway.
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Re: Alexander's tomb and the biggest archaiological concealm

Post by marcus »

spitamenes wrote:Where does that "nonsense" come from? I know I've read that before somewhere. Or something very close to it anyway.
I assumed it's in the Alexander Romance but I've just a quick look and can't find it there. I wonder whether it was an extrapolation from the story that Alexander tried to throw himself into the Euphrates, but was prevented from doing so by Roxane? (Arrian 7.27.3, Liber de Morte 101-102)

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