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marcus
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Post by marcus »

jasonxx wrote::shock:
Kenny, what's with the emoticons dotted all over the place?

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Post by jasonxx »

Excuse Me Marcus. Its my attempt to get promotion. I looked at my prior post and proudly attained the Rank of Companion. Im running out of stuff to say so ammasing posts in this way. Childish I guess.

Kenny
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Post by jasonxx »

Boys as a rule.

Were talking about the relationship and opinions raised about Alexanders school boy relationship with Hepheastion. I guess Olympius as said was more concerned with Alexander beggeting an heir. As we are aware male relations with men was normal. So even if Alexander showed little attention to girls it was not out of the ordinary.

Many scholars have maybe rightly said Glory was Alexanders mistress. How early in Alexanders life was the notion of self glory put in him. If Glory was primary I would say everyhthing else was secondary and even hobby like.Maybe sex with anyone didnt have the same kick as it does most highly sexed people. As the modern saying some people rather have a cup of tea.

Its really envious for many people that anyone could find such a close friend from school and spend all that time together. I argue even today. That such a friend is priceless. How many people fing partners. Share secrets fall in love etc etc. Then it crumbles affairs etc then those once close couple become the fiercest of enemies.

To trust anyone near 100% in any culture or time is near on impossible. I would wager Alexander could trust Hepheastion more than any other. Is why I say Hepheastion was also murdered. You couldnt kill Alexander risking his best buddy taking up where he left of and still keeping the Macedonian mob out in the cold.

Maybe Alexander had bi sexual relations I cant argue with it. Although personally I dont agree with it but were all entitled to our beliefs. And I am not in fear of Momosexuals so wont be called Homophobe.

Kenny
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Post by jasonxx »

8)
jasonxx

Post by jasonxx »

wether this initial posting was in apropriate or not it has drawn the most interest and brought out some new and interesting info. Please remove the Curse Marcus :(

Kenny
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Post by sikander »

Greetings All,

I would like to support another dimension to this discussion. Some posters seem to be assuming, somewhat, that "effeminacy" applies only to homosexual men and/or applies to all homosexuals and nothing could be further from the truth. Setting aside that fact that even many women do not fit into the narrow box of "effeminacy", we must remember that gay men and women exhibit all the variations in personality (dominance, passiveness, hyper-masculinity, effeminacy etc) as heterosexual persons.

Thus, it could well be that presenting Alexander with potential female lovers was not a concern over his same-gender relations but a possible desire to be assured that he was the dominant partner and capable of "performing" as required. I am not suggesting that a non-dominant could *not* perform but that it might have been the proposed thought of the time (much as it often is today when dealing with views based in stereotypes rather than reality). So anything that suggested a less than dominant role might have raised a few concerns with Olympiada, who needed Alexander to be seen as a suitable heir to maintain her own status and to Philip, who needed to show that his son was capable of being a king in a warrior culture.

Based on the sources, no one can state with complete assurance what Alexander's orientation was but we can conjecture from human biology ( which is relatively unchanging) and extant sources (which offer varying implications) that there was *something* going on that raised concerns. But it might well be that the concern was not whether he was attracted to men but whether he was attracted to men and dominant, attracted to men and women and capable of sex, ori nterested in sex at all (laughing)

The quote regarding being conquered by Hephaistion's thighs *could* be taken two ways, one implying a passive role, one implying the dominant.

Regards,
Sikander
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Post by marcus »

jasonxx wrote:Excuse Me Marcus. Its my attempt to get promotion. I looked at my prior post and proudly attained the Rank of Companion. Im running out of stuff to say so ammasing posts in this way. Childish I guess.

Kenny
What a cool idea! :lol: :shock: :D :o

You're a sly devil, aren't you?
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Post by marcus »

jasonxx wrote:wether this initial posting was in apropriate or not it has drawn the most interest and brought out some new and interesting info. Please remove the Curse Marcus :(

Kenny
See my Private Message - I said exactly the same thing.

Curse removed.

:D

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Post by jasonxx »

Marcus Hail

I could be here a long time I noticed Alejandro with 200+Postings and still is only a foot soldier. I gotta come up with a better ploy. 8) I kinda like the Idea of a Murcus Curse maybe itll change my luck. Extend the curse to Saturday and the lottery. Im getting Desperate and wil try anything.

Kenny :?
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Post by jasonxx »

:D
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Post by jasonxx »

Steriotypical Femininity.

I gotta make an apology for gays as a rule and the femininity stuff. I guess ive seen to many programes with the Julian Clareys. Graham Norton etc. Totally camp. I guess maybe some assosiation for me is male feminiyty with Camp ness.

Many famous gays. Rock Hudson. George Micheal aint camp. Im sure femininity in men even hetrosexual men should be accepted. I guess some of us belong in the old school of believing men dont cray etc. Crying is something ive never been able to do. and to be honest wish that I could.

Could we imagine Alexander been like Graham Norton. My problem is campness I guess. Very unusual and starnge for me and I would soppose that campness Is primarily a gay thing. I stand to be corrected.

Kenny
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Post by jasonxx »

:shock:
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marcus
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Post by marcus »

jasonxx wrote:Marcus Hail

I could be here a long time I noticed Alejandro with 200+Postings and still is only a foot soldier. I gotta come up with a better ploy. 8) I kinda like the Idea of a Murcus Curse maybe itll change my luck. Extend the curse to Saturday and the lottery. Im getting Desperate and wil try anything.

Kenny :?
Honestly, there's nothing wrong with being a Pezhetairos. Of course, you've been slightly stymied by having the problem with your email and having to start using a different address - you had to start from scratch.

I think too many emoticon-only postings might start to get on people's nerves, though ... :)

I'll happily "re-curse" you, though, if you like ... :wink:

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Post by amyntoros »

jasonxx wrote:I could be here a long time I noticed Alejandro with 200+Postings and still is only a foot soldier. I gotta come up with a better ploy. 8) I kinda like the Idea of a Murcus Curse maybe itll change my luck. Extend the curse to Saturday and the lottery. Im getting Desperate and wil try anything.
I checked the information that Thomas supplied when we changed to the present format. You'll become a Companion at 250 posts. Considering that you're presently hovering around 150 posts I think, um, well, yeah ... a hundred or so posts containing emoticons alone just might get under the skin of other members! :lol: Can we not just consider you an Honorary Companion (you could add it to your signature) for the time being?

Best regards,
Amyntoros

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Post by Taphoi »

amyntoros wrote:... the “complicated pun.” Would please elaborate on this for us, preferably translating as you go along, for I believe that only a few of us have any familiarity with the language. And I am most curious as to why these references should be “coded” in any way, especially the one from Curtius. He’s quite frank about Alexander’s sexual relationship with Bagoas. Why then hide a reference to the A/H relationship in a complicated pun that no historian, including Jeanne, seems to have noticed? :)
The Latin is:

Benigne igitur exceptis Sacarum legatis comitem excipinon dedit, adhuc admodum iuvenem, aetatis flore conciliatum sibi, qui cum specie corporis aequaret Hephaestionem, ei lepore haud sane virili par non erat.

A translation could be:

So [Alexander] received the Sacae delegation courteously and gave them "excipinon" to accompany them, who was still very young and a favourite of [Alexander’s] because he was in the flower of his youth, but, though he equalled Hephaistion in handsomeness of body, he did not match him in charm, since he was not at all manly.

However, the word for charm (lepore) is also the ablative form of the word for a hare, so an intelligent and sophisticated Roman could also read a secondary meaning into the text:

So [Alexander] received the Sacae delegation courteously and gave them "excipinon" to accompany them, who was still very young and a favourite of [Alexander’s] because he was in the flower of his youth, but, though he equalled Hephaistion in handsomeness of body, he did not match him in the giving of hare, since he was not at all manly.

There is no Euxenippus. It is a modern textual emendation of "excipinon" by Hedicke. It may derive (perhaps corruptly) from the verb excipio and could therefore mean Alexander's Greeter or Welcomer. I have suggested in Alexander's Lovers that it probably refers to Bagoas.

Romans would have cheered Alexander on in having a sexual relationship with a eunuch. It would have been seen as an entirely proper demonstration of his masculinity. However, the suggestion that Alexander himself might have been penetrated by a social inferior would have been a dreadful slur to a Roman gentleman of Curtius' era (probably the reign of Claudius). Alexander was very popular with the Claudian Emperors (especially Gaius Caligula and Nero), so Curtius might not have wished to be too blatant! Or he may simply have taken pleasure in the use of subtle innuendo.

There's more in the book, if you're really interested.

Best wishes,

Andrew
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