Alexander Was not an Alcoholic.

[kennyxx]

Michael HailI take point with your recent post claiming Alexander was prabably Alcoholic. From personal experience and common starights he was not.The common thing with Alcoholics isa confidence and esteem issue. As a rule Alcoholics use booze as a prop to become even with those around. I was am very reserved and no confidence. I used to need booze just to feel normal and not anxious. Only Alcoholics just keep pushing the stuff in all day everyday to maintain what they feel normal. Yet we are not we are pissed all the time arrogant and people around dont like been around us.Alcoholics need the stuff as soon as we get up its a drug. If we dont have it we crawl with panic attacks paranoi the works. WE seem to function and work ok but our whole socail way of life becomes damaged and tainted. No one likes us we are a pest we are drunks. The only thing that matters to an Alcoholic is the next drink.Finaly it takes decades for Alcohol to gradually kill people. I watched a friend die that couldnt strop drinking. The doctors told him to stop drinking or he would be dead in 6 months he lasted 6 years.Alexanders behaviour showed no way at all straights of Alcoholism. He was confident from the start. If Alexander was an Alcoholic then I would put it to pothos Arrian and whoever that the whole of Macedonian Society was Alcoholic.Kenny

[shaun]

Hello,
I just recently read an interesting article about this subject:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... med_docsum
That pretty much comes to the same conclusion.

[jan]

HI Kenny, I admire you for your forthrightness about alcohol. And I agree that Alexander was not an alcoholic or wino also, but I also acknowledge that he is famous for his drinking bouts and parties. He even got a mention as the greatest party giver in a national magazine recently. There it is, big picture of Alexander, along with his famous partygiving ways.So Alexander is associated with funtimes as well as military and citybuilding . I always understood that Alexander would sometimes prefer wine to tainted water. Must have been a problem in those days, except for the fact that the immune system must have been developed to withstand disease then better than it is today. The hardy Macedonians!

[dean]

Hello Kenny,My opinion is that Alexander's personality clearly displays two different faces or facets. It evolves.Let me explain myself. Just mean that the youthful Alexander- around the time of the razing of Thebes, Grannicus- Issus- etc. would be the sober phase- and then there is the other Alexander,the time of the - burning of Persepolis, killing of Cleitus, and the last days in Babylon.Plutarch certainly tries to brush off the accusation which was obvious, lightly- he drank just while the conversation lasted but I think that in the Persepolis phase, he was one heavy drinker.Best regards,
Dean.

[ruthaki]

I found this article very interesting and must say I agree with it. The Macedonians were notable drinkers and especially when they resorted to unmixed wine I would excpect it had an affect on the drinker (Alexander in particular showed a few times that his judgement must have been impaired). But having lived part of my life with an alchoholic I wouldn't say A. was one or he'd have never achieved what he did. Good job they didn't have such substances as vodka then though or who knows what might have happened!

[kennyxx]

Hail Ruth and respect.With you living with an Alcoholic and my experiences. I would guess we could come up with behaviour traits and patterns that come with Alcoholism. The condition is complex and even hard to get an understanding. I am more than sure it was very hard for you and would never advice anyone ever to get involved with one male or female.Its an absolute mindfield of behaviour and mind games. The only thing that matters to an alcoholic is where is his next drink and its fare to say its selfish and secretive and a way of life that wouldnt let Alexander achieve what he did. At the same time most alcoholics as arule i found to be inteligent and when sober the nicest person you could meet.I take the point by dean given that Alexander did some extreme things whilst drunk. Alcohol makes the most placid of people do what they wouldnt dream of. Ive seen the best of friends nearly kill each other after they got drunk. I totally excuse Alexanders killing of Clietus. They were both very drunk and Clietus as many drunks wouldnt walk away the outcome with readily available weapons was inevitable. I wont go into detail with Alcohol but from experience Alexander was no Alcoholic. Alcoholics need Alcohol its an addiction Alexander was not addicted and I doubt he was looking high and low for a drink as soon as he got up.Kenny

[ruthaki]

You are so right, Kenny. My husband was a handsome (think Clark Gable) charming and talented man, loved by everyone. He had an excellent job as a plant manager for a big corporation. But he started to drink because it gave him courage. And consequently he ruined his life, fulfilled his death wish and almost ruined ours as well. Alexander certainly didn't need drink to give him courage.
But I do believe he went over the edge at a couple of those wild Macedonian parties which resulted in him making very bad moves (example: the murder of Cleitus during a drunken rage.)

[kennyxx]

Ruth Your story is so familiar, The irony with this is i guess not until later did his work collegues etc even know until as the Alcoholism gets so bad with deterioration that they noticed. I know and can guess what your life was like.Some are succesful in adegree as your husband but it takes them in the end. Alcoholics are mostly assosiated with the down and outs Ive seen them but not got that bad.I guess weboth know if Alexander saw alcoholic it would be quete evident. The most obvious thing is his confidence from the start. Alcoholics generaly need booze to get confidence and to achieve. Alexanders achievement and drive were his own.I do agree he would probably have got a little too pissed sometimes and done things outragious Alcohol is a depresent and covers inhibitions. But I will argue Clietus was both to blames. Maybe Clietus more for antagonising. Where he sober he wouldnt have kept prodding. And I am more than sure Parmenio etc aside. Alexander did deeply regret killing Clietus. He was only airing his views and had always been loyal to both Alexander and Philip and was always a good soldier and commander.I think even were Hepheastion and Alexander to be pissed and start that kind of confrontation. In exactly the same situation Alexander would have speared Hepheastion.Kenny

[marcus]

This is a very interesting discussion - and thank you Kenny and Ruth for explaining a subject that many of us do not understand enough about.It strikes me that the drinking that went on at the Macedonian court was not at all to do with alcoholism, as you explain; but much more akin to the binge-drinking that our government and media like to tut-tut about so much (while at the same time relaxing the licensing laws ... strange paradox, there). On a Saturday night in Leicester Square you see an awful lot of fights that are drink-fuelled, and which are probably exactly the same as the argument between Cleitus and Alexander (although I doubt if too many Londoners are arguing about the relative merits of Philip II and Alexander, or complaining about being made satrap of Bactria ...). The hospitals are filled with people suffering injuries from such fights ... and perhaps there would be more deaths if there were more sarissas around outside the Hippodrome ...ATBMarcus

[kennyxx]

MARCUS
Your analogy and comparisons for drinking today are spot on. But todays society is even different from say 3o years ago.I remember the days when a few drinks and a scrap were part of a good night out. Todays youngsters and drinkers are much more dangerous. Society and values are the pits and there are substances been taken that really turn the common punch up into something more viscious. It was only fists and the occasional boot. Now its a glass in the face just for accidently looking at someone across a pub even now. But the comparisons you make with tiffs arguements turning nasty after a few bears is Exactly the Scenario with Clietus. I guess most people when drunk say home trueths that one wouldnt say when sober?Clietus Im sure had his resntments and viewed them. If his mates or anyone had sense they would have ushered him out and kept him outand things in the morning would have been back to normal. I have never doubted or had reason to doubt Cleitus loyalty or his value as A soldier. I dont think he was ever viewed by Alexander in the same ways as maybe Parmenio. And indeed I dont doubt Alexanders remorse nor do I think it a sympathy winner to sulk and moan in his tent for 3 days. I am sure Alexander for that one was sorry.I dont doubt his other maliscious stuff but I always think whatever he did Thebes for instances was always for his reasons.Kenny

[Paralus]

G'day Kenny.I'm with Dean. Whilst you especially would know, I think if he didn't suffer alcoholism by the time of Babylon, he most certainly appeared to have a worrisome dependency.Paralus.

[chris]

I agree. People also drink to forget, or escape. With atrocities all around him, it couldn't have been easy for ATG - ancient-world standards or not. I believe he became a functioning alcoholic, much like Churchill. Also, he was in a position to do it.