Amyntor Amyntoros

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Alexias
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Amyntor Amyntoros

Post by Alexias »

Sorry, I seem to have written a bit of an essay here.

In her doctoral thesis, J Reames has the following:

“A more likely relation (to Hephaestion) might be found on an inscription from Kolophon (Maier 69.139) which Maier (227) dates to 313/306 but Meritt (1935: 371) dates to 334. It does not even require the Amyntor of the IG II 405 inscription to be Hephaistion’s father (Amyntor son of Demetrios being granted Athenian citizenship in 334/3 BC). This Kolophon inscription is a building decree for walls which includes a list of contributors and their respective amounts, among them one “Amyntor gerontos Makedon” who donated five hundred thousand gold pieces. Given the style of the rest of the inscription, gerontos, although without the attendant article, means “son of the elder Amyntor”.

I am unclear whether the ‘Makedon’ refers to either or both of the Amyntors.

JR postulates that this Amyntor son of Amyntor was a much younger, posthumous half-brother of Hephaestion, named after his deceased father, who was on his way out from Macedon to join his brother and stalled at Kolophon following Alexander and Hephaestion’s deaths.
There are, I think, a number of problems with this interpretation.

Firstly, it may be a peculiarity of the translation, but “the elder Amyntor” implies someone who was known to the inhabitants of Kolophon, and was either still alive or recently deceased. If his father was not an inhabitant of the city, is it more likely that the younger Amyntor would have been known just as “of Macedon” or something similar.

Secondly, there may be a dating problem in identifying the younger Amyntor with Hephaestion. If he were coming out from Macedon to join his brother at court in 324/3 BC, that would mean he would have had to be about 14 to join the Pages, giving him a birthdate of about 338. If he were any older than this it is likely he would have already been at court, and if younger, Alexander may have sent for Hephaestion’s only living relative after his death but, given that his own son by Barsine was living at Pergamon and not with him, this seems unlikely.

If the dating of the inscription to 334 is correct (and the conjectured birthdate), that would make him four years old when the wall building contribution was made, so that would completely rule out an association with Hephaestion based on JR’s hypothesis. If the later dating for the inscription is correct, he would then have been in his late twenties, but it seems unlikely that he would still be known as the younger Amyntor nearly thirty years after his father’s death.

Reames states that the fact that the younger Kolophon Amyntor was named after his father, rather than his grandfather, might indicate that he was born after his father’s death. Yet if he were a posthumous son and also Hephaestion’s brother on his way out to join the king, his father cannot be identified with the Amnytor son of Demetrios who was granted Athenian citizenship in 334/3 BC, if the younger Kolophon Amyntor’s posthumous birthdate is four years earlier around 338.

if Amyntor was not a posthumous son, and his father was the Athenian Amyntor, that begs the question why was he living in Kolophon when he had been granted Athenian citizenship along with his father. Kolophon however appears to have been founded by Athenians so it may be possible the Athenian Amyntor, or the older Kolophon Amyntor if they are not the same man, had links in both cities.

However, if they are the same man, and the earlier date for the inscription is correct, ignoring any connection with Hephaestion, in 334/3 we would have the father in Athens receiving citizenship and the son in Kolophon building walls, and yet the family would appear to be originally from Macedon. In 334, Alexander might have passed through Kolophon on his way south to Ephesus. It might be that the younger Amyntor was left behind to assist in rebuilding the walls, but the question is where did he get the money from as Alexander was still comparatively impoverished, having only the spoils from Granicus and whatever he got from Ephesus. Anything he got from Ephesus was likely to have been used for his own needs or for the rebuilding of Artemis’s temple. What spare cash Alexander did have appears to have been used to commemorate the dead Companions from the Granicus as he commissioned memorial statues. He may have got the cash for this from the sale of the Greek mercenaries on the Persian side into slavery, and it would not be lost on Alexander that the revenge inflicted on the defeated paid for the glorification of the sacrifice of the victors, rather than on building walls in a comparatively unimportant town.

If the walls were built around 334, it would seem more likely therefore that they were built in response to Alexander’s invasion rather than as a result of his liberation. Yet it doesn’t seem likely that a Macedonian would be fortifying the city against Alexander.

A date of 313/306 would therefore seem more likely for the wall building during the various activities of the Successors and that the elder Amyntor was likely to be an adherent, if not a direct appointee, of Antigonus, who was stationed in the city. His son in turn may have been associated with Demetrius and have nothing to do with Hephaestion or the Athenian Amyntor (who in my opinion was more likely to have been a prosperous merchant than having any connection with Macedon or Hephaestion).
agesilaos
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Re: Amyntor Amyntoros

Post by agesilaos »

The whole inscription can be found here http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptions/main it number 6 in McCabe's Kolophon and when translated to word runs to 27 pages! Rather too long to post, methinks.
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system1988
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Re: Amyntor Amyntoros

Post by system1988 »

Alexias wrote:Sorry, I seem to have written a bit of an essay here.

In her doctoral thesis, J Reames has the following:

“A more likely relation.....

.... likely to have been a prosperous merchant than having any connection with Macedon or Hephaestion).
Thank you very much for sharing this. I was not aware of this inscription, you seem to have written a text with very accurate observations. However, in the publishment of the inscription by McCabe one could also observe that the "Γέροντος' is written in caps on the first letter, something that shows that in the mind (at least) of the original publisher of the said inscription the word is not just a word but an actual name. This means that it should be read as "Amyntor, son of Gerontos, Macedonian".

With the above info all of J Reames' claims are deconstructed.

The name "Geron" is very rare from what I have seen so far. But if we are to follow Reames' hypothesis, that it is not a name but a plain adjective, (which in that case would mean "old"), we should also admit that the name of a prominent citizen was inscribed officially in a very official document with the paradoxicality that the name of the prominent citizen was not accompanied by his father's name - as it was customary for hundreds of years- but accompanied by a simple adjective.

Simply put, in Greek "Γέρων" is a name of person but "γέρων" (you see no capital letters) is an adjective and it means "old person".

From a quick reading of the inscription I reached the conclusion that it is probably dated back to Antigonos' era, meaning after 306 BC. Alexander is now dead for several years and Antigonos has continous givings and receivings with said lands.

Of course all this is a bit superficial as an analysis (because one must have in front of him the original marble inscription) but the grammar is valid.

Best

Pauline
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agesilaos
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Re: Amyntor Amyntoros

Post by agesilaos »

It is most probably before 306 BC, as it is Alexander (IV) that is styled 'KIng' rather than Antigonos who probably took the title that year, but I agree that Gerontos must be the genitive of Geron rather than an adjective.
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hiphys
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Re: Amyntor Amyntoros

Post by hiphys »

In any case 'Makedon' is apposition of Amyntor, not Amyntoros: otherwise it would be 'Makedonos' in the genitive case.
system1988
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Re: Amyntor Amyntoros

Post by system1988 »

No, the place of origin is usually on the nominative look at the other lines.
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agesilaos
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Re: Amyntor Amyntoros

Post by agesilaos »

This is the list of all the contributors with their cities

139 Amyntor son of Geron of the Macedonians
143 Nikephoros son of Athenaios the Abderite
144 Stephanos son of Menandros of Amphipolitan
145-6 Kallias son of Appollonophanes the Maronite
147 Metrodoros son of Metron the Pitanean
148 Herakleides son of Eukleidos the Herakleiote
149 Eudemos son of Pyrrhos of the Macedonians from Alexandria
151 Kronios son of Menon the Milesian
269 Metrodoros son of Parmenon of Kypros
498-9 Athenodotos son of Apollon of Bryax a metic
646 Pythagores son of Metrodoros of Kneme
741-2 Apollophanes son of Parmis the Apollonian (or son of Apollonios; article present)
747-8 Kallias son of Straton the Naukratean
825-6 Apollophanes son of …on of Kolis
847-8 Hakatonymos son of Parmenon of Kneme
865-6 Artemidoros son of Hekatonymos of Hegetoris

All are given their ethnic in the genitive, 'Makedwn' is plural genitve of 'Makedos' which is a variant of 'Makedonos', they are 'of the Macedonian people' rather than from Makedonia, a state. Eudemos is interesting and I wonder if 'Alexandreious' might not mean 'a veteran of Alexander' since the Antigonids were enemies of the Lagids consistently during the 'reign' of Alexander IV (excepting a short period just after the murder of Philip III when they stood against Eumenes of Kardia), it is hard to imagine an Alexandrian giving money to fortify his King's /Satrap's enemy's city :?

Terms like 'Abderites' can be seen as nominative but are genitive forms of the city name.

Edited to add last sentence.
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system1988
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Re: Amyntor Amyntoros

Post by system1988 »

' All are given their ethnic in the genitive' Αβδηρίτης, Αμφιπολίτης,Πιταναίος,Ηρακλεώτης, Μιλήσιος, Κυπρίδης .Αre all these on genitive?
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agesilaos
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Re: Amyntor Amyntoros

Post by agesilaos »

Yes,
G12adj.jpg
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they are feminine adjectives singular genitive (second column second entry). In English it is easy to see them as Nominative since we make new words for citizens of cities or nations, Parisian, Londoner, Abderite; the Greeks make an adjective of the genitive case of the city/people Abdere - Abderites. So, Amyntor Amphipolites is Amyntor (nominative) of Amphipolis (genitive).

Probably as clear as mud, Makedwn is plural genitive rather than singular nominative, which shows that they remained a 'people' rather than citizens, who are distinguished by their city, which militates against Ed Anson's ideas of Philip II creating a property based 'hoplite' class. I will edit in the relevant article titles, just got to get backto my already late assignments :shock:
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system1988
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Re: Amyntor Amyntoros

Post by system1988 »

Sorry i am trying to understand something, so please fill the gap with the proper (for you) ancient greek word that is missing but implied : Νικηφόρος Αθηναίου Αβδηρίτης (......... ) Σ τέφανος Μενάνδρου Αμφιπολίτης ( .......) in the proper cojugation of course.
Τhanks in advance
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agesilaos
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Re: Amyntor Amyntoros

Post by agesilaos »

ἐχξακοσίους...and...τριηκοσίους - six hundred and three hundred, both ablative plural are the words there, and mean they donated that many drachmai. Had we just :
Νικηφόρος Αθηναίου Αβδηρίτης (......... )
Στέφανος Μενάνδρου Αμφιπολίτης ( .......)

there is no reason to supply anything as they are full names with patrinymic and ethnic; in this sort of inscription one might suppose a number for the size of the donation but only if their are signs of lost letters; any number could be inserted; is that what you mean?
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system1988
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Re: Amyntor Amyntoros

Post by system1988 »

I mean this: Supply the implied but missing noun which corresponds to the adjective ( your hypotesis) ie Νικηφόρος Αθηναίου Αβδηρίτης... ( της πόλεως? του κοινού ? της συμπολιτίας ? της χώρας? του βασιλείου? ) Your adjective must match an implied noun.

Something does not add up Agesilaos. Does not exist the form 'Αμφιπολίτης' as genitive in ancient greek ( neither in modern greek) the right form should be " Αμφιπολίτου ' 'Α βδηρίτου' 'Μ ιλησίου'.
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agesilaos
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Re: Amyntor Amyntoros

Post by agesilaos »

I think I understand what you are asking, but my (mis?)understanding is that, there is the noun, Amphipolis, say, from which an adjective is derived - amphipolites which is an implied genitive OF Amphipolis which is self contained so does not qualify an implied noun (maybe της πόλεως, though); I am tying myself up in knots a la Laocoon; Αμφιπολίτης like Apollonios are at once both names and adjectives from the genitive but they do, as you say, decline in their own right but Μακεδών is simply a genitive form, 'of the Makedones'. So, Αμφιπολίτου is OF [the man] Of Amphipolis; there is probably a really good word for this but I do not know it!

I am not going to tell a Greek they don't know Greek, honestly, and what you are saying is right, I am just looking a morphological stage back and failing to explain it very well :cry:
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hiphys
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Re: Amyntor Amyntoros

Post by hiphys »

Sorry, agesilaos, but 'Makedon' (with the omega) isn't a genitive plural, but a nominative singular. The genitive plural is 'Makedonon' (where the first /o/is an omikron, the last an omega). There are plenty of inscriptions with the name MAKEDONON in Roman coins of the Macedonian province ( see: Ancient coins of Macedon, p.239, fig.152 [www.snible.org/coins/hn/macedon.html]). For the debate on the use of the ethnic Makedon, see Jacek Rzepka,' Koinè ekklesia of the Macedonians', Tyche 20, 2005, especially pp.134-139.
agesilaos
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Re: Amyntor Amyntoros

Post by agesilaos »

Quite right both you and System1988 were right and I was wrong, so Makedon is nom sing which agrees with the noun it applies to , the man's name Amyntor, else it would describe his father's origin as the patrinym is in the genitive. Grammar aside the point that the Makedonians are not described by a city, as the Greeks are, but as a nation, and in the case of Eudamos 'a Makedonian from Alexandria' rather than an Alexandrian.

'Timeo Danaaos...' :lol:
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