Coragus' Sarisa

[Paralus]

Question -- did they use any kind of sticky stuff in the join, or just slide 'em in and go?

Interesting question.What - if any - reliable 'glues' were available to the ancients? It would likely negate the portability aspect though.

I'm in the two-part camp for reasons I explained elsewhere -- mostly the difficulty of changing the tapering trunk of an 18-foot tree into a single dowel of even diameter -- but the too-short argument did have me wondering.

Me too: I was just not ever convinced that such a short sleeve would do the job. It would obviously be much easier to transport in two pieces. Given that we are not talking modern production here, these sarisae components might have been just a little particular to each other I'd think. That is, one might not necessarily fit another's sleeve just so perfectly.

The real question is, given the number of sarisa sauroters and heads found, it is intriguing that only the one extant 'sleeve' has been unearthed. Also intriguing is the fact that sarisa sauroters and heads have been found in the Royal Tombs as well as dory heads. Seems the royals had used the weapon too.

Meanwhile, practicing my Greek reading so I can at least slightly get signs, etc. ...
ΕΘΧΑΡΙΣΤΟ, ΑΜΥΝΤΟΡΟΣ!

You are going to have the time of your life with those signs: especially road signs. The Greek is posted well in advance (both in Greek and english characters from memory) and the English is posted - almost always from my experience - on the exit! Most helpful!!

[Archimedes]

ΕΘΧΑΡΙΣΤΟ

What's that theta doing in there?

[Archimedes]

The infantry sarisa will generally have weighed around some six and a half kilos (fifteen odd pounds). Balanced in the hand at its balance point, this is not a heavy weight single handed. It is only when held toward the rear third that both hands will be needed. Corhagus may well have held the sarisa at its balance point with a pelte off his shoulder in the left and thrown a javelin with the right.

But how would he have then transferred the sarisa to his right hand? And once he got it there, how fast would he have been able to wield it against a highly mobile opponent?

[Archimedes]

Site with links to both Alexander mosaic and Kinch tomb:

http://www.ancientbattles.com/WAB_Maced ... xyston.htm

[Paralus]

But how would he have then transferred the sarisa to his right hand? And once he got it there, how fast would he have been able to wield it against a highly mobile opponent?

Accepting the story as fact for the purposes of the discussion, by moving it from one hand to the other. He'd no real concern with his shield as the other fellow has a club - he is not going to have a javelin thrown at him. Therefore Corrhagus briings his sarisa around to the front, into both hands and crouches forward. Something Philip's well trained infantry will have been familiar with.

He got it there quickly enough for his opponent to break it with his club.

Arrian, Anabasis, 1.6.1:
Accordingly he gave the signal to the heavy-armed infantry in the first place to hold their spears erect, and then to couch them at the concerted sign; at one time to incline their spears to the right, closely locked together, and at another time towards the left. He then set the phalanx itself into quick motion forward, and marched it towards the wings, now to the right, and then to the left.

Yes, this in phalanx formation. It might therefore have been the more difficult to execute. Either way it demonstrates complete familiarity with the weapon and Corrhagus will have been unencumbered by files to his right or left.

[Archimedes]

by moving it from one hand to the other

So how long is your 6.5 kilo sarisa, and where along that length is the balance point?

[Paralus]

So how long is your 6.5 kilo sarisa, and where along that length is the balance point?

Given the original question, I’m assuming you are in the “cavalry sarisa” camp. I might well be convinced one way or the other but, on the whole, am with Agesilaos. So let’s then address a couple of posts here.

The length of the sarisa under Philip and Alexander is generally agreed to have been between fifteen to eighteen feet; this based on Theophrastus and Asclepiodotus. This has then led various moderns to postulate that 1) front ranks used a shorter sarisa and rear ranks a longer; 1) the sarisa varied over it development from shorter to longer or vis versa; 3) the 15’ sarisa represents the cavalry sarisa.

I would subscribe to the second as the first I find passingly strange and an over complication of what should be simple. Minor M Markle would be the champion of the last of those.

Over three articles – The Macedonian Sarissa, Spear, and Related Armor; Use of the Sarissa by Philip and Alexander of Macedon and Macedonian Arms and Tactics under Alexander The Great – Markle argues for (amongst many other things) the cavalry sarisa and claims its first use was at Chaeronea; that the hypaspists were hoplites; that the infantry sarisa was likely not used until Alexander The Great and did not have a but spike. Interestingly Markle observes that Theophrastus’ description of the longest sarisa being 18 feet indicates there were shorter ones. He then only ever addresses the 15’ “cavalry sarisa” as the shorter one

The literary support for this argument can be summed up in Arrian’s description of Granicus (1.15.2, 5 & 16.1). Here Arrian ascribes the success of the Macedonians to their long cornel wood spears. Whereas the first of these does indeed refer to the cavalry attack (as likely might the second) the latter sounds suspiciously infantry like. Arrian’s description is not the best and were we to take him on first blush, the infantry (aside from one company) seems to have stayed on their side of the river until it was time to slaughter the Greek mercenaries. I’d suggest that the Persian centre giving way was due in no small part to the cornel wood of infantry sarisae. Either that or Alexander won the battle with the Companion Cavalry on his own.

The art argument devolves down to the Kinch tomb, the Alexander Mosaic and the Alexander Sarcophagus (as well as numismatics – the odd Bactrian coin). The first two have been discussed. The latter clearly indicates a long spear being wielded by Alexander. This can be seen by the holes for the original (metal) spear. The other horseman (Perdiccas / Antigonus??) is wielding the same sort of spear. Markle estimates that the length of both these forward spear ends – and the spear in the mosaic – at about 2.25m (7’4”). He then doubles this to state that they are cavalry sarisae of 4.5m (about 15’).

Again, I’d find a spear of fifteen or more feet a difficult thing to handle riding bare-back. I’d be more convinced by a counter weighed lance – or lengthened xyston – of some twelve feet where the balance point was at the four to five foot mark. This leaves reach without the extra weight and length. It might well explain those “lighter” sarisa heads unearthed in the tombs of Vergina.

As to the question at the top? The longest sarisa – eighteen feet – has been computed (in Markle’s articles) to weigh 6.2kg (14lb). The “cavalry sarisa” to 5.35kg (12lb). Corrhagus – if he is wielding a “cavalry sarisa” – is saving himself having to deal with an extra three or so feet and two pounds.

[agesilaos]

To back up Paralus' dismissal of varied length sarissai in the same phalanx - the manouevres descibed by Arrian both in Illyria and at Issos would be impossible if there were different lengths of weapon. Since the file was the basic unit of manouevre at Issos the phalanx was arrayed by half-files which would mean a sort of saw tooth effect inviting the lopping off of the furthest projecting sarrisai points with the two flanking files unable to intervene due to the shortness off their weapons. The strength of the phalanx was that it presented the enemy with an unbroken wall of jabbing spearpoints before the enemy was within striking range.

This leads on to Theophrastos, who was writing at the end of the fourth century i.e. during the Diadoch Wars. Now, on a battlefield where both sides have pike phalanxes it might seem an obvious move to lengthen ones own sarissai in order to maintain first-strike capability; this would lead to a rapid growth to the maximum practical length, which I have as 21ft presumably 14 cubits which may be rendered as 18ft by believers in tarn's short Macedonian cubit.

The cavalry sarissa is a myth in my view, a misnomer for the xysta which are clearly contrasted to the Persian paltai at the Granikos so definitly a comment on the cavalry and no allusion to the phalanx. Indeed, the infantry really does not seem to have played a role until the assault on the stranded, surrendering mercenaries - Arrian himself refers to the hippomachia, which is to say cavalry battle at the Granikos.

M M Markle also thinks that sarissai were not used until Issos adducing this from the fact that the Macedonian heavies are termed 'hoplites' in Arrian till then - closer analysis would suggest that this was what the common soldiers were called, Arrian even uses the term for Indian infantry at the Hydaspes, not to mention the so-called Cardaces. It implies nothing more than close-order infantry, it says nothing about equipment.

That sarissai had butt-spikes which were additionally counter-balanced is stated plainly in Polybios' description of the phalanx around book forty I think, and depicted on a great many reliefs and wall-paintings.

Corrhagos should be imagined as waiting sarissa erect in his left hand ,shield slung on his shoulder and forearm, he cannot make an efficient javelin cast as any foot movement will end in him either dropping the sarissa or getting entangled with it! Having cast the missile his right hand grasps the hand grip of his sarissa, which should be about shoulder height, he then advances kepping the butt-spike on the ground and sliding his left hand up the shaft until the point of balance reached the spear falls into its couched position. This is how i would imagine it done for real without the otiose javelin of course, else the butt mustswing blind to the rear which has to be dangerous in close formation, forward momentum is also automatically imparted to the formation.

[Paralus]

To back up Paralus' dismissal of varied length sarissai in the same phalanx - the manouevres descibed by Arrian both in Illyria and at Issos would be impossible if there were different lengths of weapon.

Absolutely.Ditto Issus.

This leads on to Theophrastos, who was writing at the end of the fourth century i.e. during the Diadoch Wars. Now, on a battlefield where both sides have pike phalanxes it might seem an obvious move to lengthen ones own sarissai in order to maintain first-strike capability;

Which seems exactly what happened. Cleonymus is said by Polyaenus to have grappled with twenty-four foot sarisae armed infantry at Edessa somehwere about 300 BC.

The cavalry sarissa is a myth in my view, a misnomer for the xysta which are clearly contrasted to the Persian paltai at the Granikos so definitly a comment on the cavalry and no allusion to the phalanx. Indeed, the infantry really does not seem to have played a role until the assault on the stranded, surrendering mercenaries - Arrian himself refers to the hippomachia, which is to say cavalry battle at the Granikos.

I think a good amount of the battle appearing only as cavalry is Arrian's focus on Alexander's "heroic combat" - almost sequential single combat. The narrative seems interested only in the cavalry fording the Granicus and its resultant struggles. Almost as a an afterthought we find the centre giving way - all due to Alexander's attack. It is difficult to see Alexander's cavalry alone defeating 20,000 Persian cavalry - including the "flower" of same. More particularly as it was so hard fought out on the right of Alexander's line

I just think that the infantry has become lost in the confused accounts that have come down to us. There is mention in Arrians account of "one company of infantry". I can only assume it to be the Agrianes acting as hamippoi and it is these who are giving the Persians a hard time amongst the cavalry.

I can't see the hypaspists and the rest of the infantry settling for watching the spectacle from the other side of the bank.

I tend to agree about the cavalry sarisa. I think that Markle too is occasionally "out there".

Does anyone have a photo of the sarisa armed guards at the entrance to the Aghios Athanasios tomb? I have them described but no image (seems it's another Greek state secret). Yet another indication of sarisa armed guards Phoebus...

[Phoebus]

Haha, you don't have to convince me Paralus. I'm less doubtful of whether it happened and more curious as to how well it worked out, to be honest.

Meaning, unless Alexander had a lot of sarissa-armed hypaspists/guards in attendance, I'm not sure how enough sarissae would be present to maintain an effective spear wall (the sarissa as an individual weapon does not strike me as very effective). And, even if he did, I struggle to see how such a guard would be effective.

Really, I probably just need to accept that some things were used in a ceremonial, rather than practical, sense. Kind of how it makes little sense for the Old Guard of Arlington Cemetary to field old-style, non-automatic rifles when there are more modern carbines out there.

[amyntoros]

Does anyone have a photo of the sarisa armed guards at the entrance to the Aghios Athanasios tomb? I have them described but no image (seems it's another Greek state secret). Yet another indication of sarisa armed guards Phoebus...

I don't know of an available image on the web or otherwise, but I did see the full sized recreation of the tomb entrance in the Alexander exhibit at the Onassis Center. The two guards are thought to be "slightly less than life size" and I'd guess they were somewhere around five feet tall - it was difficult to judge as their feet are above ground level. If my memory is to be trusted, the sarissa were nowhere near three times their height - or even 2-1/2 times their height if we assume that the average Macedonian was 6 feet tall (which I sincerely doubt) - but I suppose we must once again consider artistic license. If the sarissae had been portrayed as fifteen feet long then they would have run into the frieze over the top of the door and out the other side!

That artist's (photographic?) reproduction must still exist somewhere as I believe it was returned to Greece. Maybe it's in the museum at Thessaloniki?

Meaning, unless Alexander had a lot of sarissa-armed hypaspists/guards in attendance, I'm not sure how enough sarissae would be present to maintain an effective spear wall (the sarissa as an individual weapon does not strike me as very effective). And, even if he did, I struggle to see how such a guard would be effective.

I tend to agree with you on this. For instance, what about the Pages who guarded Alexander's sleep chamber? Were they equipped with sarissae also? Seems to me that a shorter spear (Paralus can, I’m sure, provide me with the proper Greek name for such ) would logically be more effective in such circumstances. How much use would a sarissa be if the attackers were from within Alexander's army and the pages/guards were unsuspecting? If they came closer than six feet and then drew their swords wouldn't sarissae be useless?

And please, someone, do tell me. What is the "approved" spelling of sarissa? There are 56,300 Google hits for sarisa and 172,000 for sarissa. Which one meets with academic approval?

Best regards,

[Archimedes]

Corrhagos should be imagined as waiting sarissa erect in his left hand ,shield slung on his shoulder and forearm, he cannot make an efficient javelin cast as any foot movement will end in him either dropping the sarissa or getting entangled with it!

So the champion of the Macedonians would treat Alexander's camp to that kind of buffoonish spectacle?

Paralus earlier mentioned that Coragus might have been holding a 6.5 kilo sarisa at its balance point in his left hand, and I took him to mean that Coragus was holding it horizontally at his side. Now if a considerable length of the sarisa projected behind Coragus on his left side, it might be a rather awkward chore to get the thing over to his right side. And then it would be an even more awkward chore to chase someone around and try to stick him.

[Archimedes]

And please, someone, do tell me. What is the "approved" spelling of sarissa? There are 56,300 Google hits for sarisa and 172,000 for sarissa. Which one meets with academic approval?

I used sarisa in the thread title because that's the way it's spelled in both the Greek and Latin accounts of the duel.

[Phoebus]

It occurs to me (in response to the "buffonish spectacle" reference above) that the same histories that include million-man armies might have provided a bit of dramatic license for the fight. That is, incorporating a "signature" Macedonian weapon for the Macedonian champion, and similarly featuring the Greek in Heraclean form.

[Paralus]

Paralus can, I’m sure, provide me with the proper Greek name for such...

Lonche (javelin); dory (hoplite spear)

And please, someone, do tell me. What is the "approved" spelling of sarissa? There are 56,300 Google hits for sarisa and 172,000 for sarissa. Which one meets with academic approval?

Don't know about the academic approval but the Greek is sarisais (sarisae/sarisas); sarisan (sarisa)

Just on the sarisa and my fetish with Lane-fox's assertion it was abandoned prior to India and never used under Alexander again, someone please best tell Diodorus. In the errradication of the Indian mercenaries Diodorus clearly describes the Macedonians' sarisae piercing the Indians' peltae and subsequently their chests.

Apparently the rank and file ignored their king's instructions and took 'em anyhow...