Why the marriage with Roxane?

[Stelius]

The motives for a marriage with Roxane could very well be political and a part of the integration plans of Alexander. But I do think that Alexander married Roxane for love. He was the most powerful man on earth. I don’t think he was so afraid of the local nobles, as some say, that he had to marry one of their daughters to make them his allies. If they were stupid enough to revolt he would have crushed them and they would not revolt twice. For political reasons it would do a much better statement to marry a Persian princess, which he did. Roxane was beautiful and the most powerful man in the world saw her and he wanted her. And guess what, he got her.

What do you think?

[marcus]

I don’t think he was so afraid of the local nobles, as some say, that he had to marry one of their daughters to make them his allies. If they were stupid enough to revolt he would have crushed them and they would not revolt twice. For political reasons it would do a much better statement to marry a Persian princess, which he did.

Well, for starters I agree that he wasn't "afraid" of the local nobles, as such. However, I do disagree that he would have crushed them if they decided to revolt - it had taken him over 2 years to subdue a region of the Persian empire that was holding him up from progressing to India - if crushing them were so easy, he would have done it much earlier. So marrying himself out of the quagmire made perfect sense. Anyway, polygamy was not a problem - and he ended up with three wives by the time of his death.

Also, Roxane was "Persian", inasmuch as the Bactrians and Sogdians were "Persian" tribes. His marriage to her was required to help pacify that region, allowing him to move on to India. Later he married two other Persian princesses, to provide links to the previous royal house(s), which was a different political statement.

ATB

[Stelius]

His marriage to her was required to help pacify that region, allowing him to move on to India.

I don't agree, Alexander never even had to fight that region. They surrendered to Alexander beacause they where afraid of his soldiers. Why then would he need a marriage to subdue this region when he didn't needed to fight in the first place?

[marcus]

His marriage to her was required to help pacify that region, allowing him to move on to India.

I don't agree, Alexander never even had to fight that region. They surrendered to Alexander beacause they where afraid of his soldiers. Why then would he need a marriage to subdue this region when he didn't needed to fight in the first place?

We're talking about Sogdiana - in which he most certainly did have to fight!

Which region do you suppose he didn't have to fight in?

ATB

[Paralus]

His marriage to her was required to help pacify that region, allowing him to move on to India.

I don't agree, Alexander never even had to fight that region. They surrendered to Alexander beacause they where afraid of his soldiers. Why then would he need a marriage to subdue this region when he didn't needed to fight in the first place?

What an interesting notion. It appears, then, that Alexander and his army were holidaying in Bactria/Sogdiana. Operating often in more than the one column for near to two years so as to see the sights that much quicker! Bessus, Spitamenes, Sisimithres – to name a few – these were simply “debating” the Macedonian conqueror’s claim to the satrapies?

The surrender of Sisimithres is arranged via the agency of Oxyartes. It might be assumed that he had come to an accommodation with the invader and had been helping him subdue the insuurection. The name is well attested within the royal house – as is Roxanne, Darius ostensibly having a daughter of the same name – and so it is a near certainty that Oxyartes is Persian. How close to the erstwhile Achaemenid king we do not know. How unsurprising then that we find Alexander marrying this fellow’s daughter and suggesting senior officers do likewise with other high ranking women. This marriage was – like his father’s before him – the final political statement of the conquest: the king takes a bride from the conquered territory.

On the invader’s eventual departure for India he left behind several well attested garrison towns and 10,000 infantry along with 3,500 cavalry. Evidently they hadn’t done the sightseeing tour as yet.

[derek]

Roxane was an unusual choice for a royal bride, so who knows, it may have been a love match. What’s certain is that Alexander gained substantially by it. The northeast frontier had been in regular revolt against the Persian empire for hundreds of years beforehand (Cyrus and Zoroaster were killed there) and the guerilla campaign against Alexander had been going on for two years already. We only have to look at the British, Russians and now the Americans to see that’s how the Afghans fight. They may seem to roll over when the invader comes, but they’re really only taking to the hills. And they never give up the fight.

But look what happened when Alexander married a local girl and elevated her to queen: the rebellion ended almost immediately. He was able to withdraw his army a few months later and Sogdiana remained one of the most passive satrapies in the empire, even after his death.

In those days, women were viewed as possessions and marriage was conducted as a business deal between men. A royal marriage, especially, took place for diplomatic or political gain, no other reason. When Alexander married Stateira and Parysatis, he’d just returned to Persia after several years away. He’d either never seen his brides or they’d still been children the last time he’d seen them. His motive in marrying them can only have been to unify his empire.

Maybe the story of Alexander falling in love with Roxane at first sight is true, but had there been no revolt in Sogdiana, I somehow doubt he’d have married her. No matter how smitten he may have been, a tribal chieftain’s daughter from the back-of-beyond would have been made a concubine, no more.

Derek

[Paralus]

No matter how smitten he may have been, a tribal chieftain’s daughter from the back-of-beyond would have been made a concubine, no more.

That might just underestimate Oxyartes a little. He may well have been a little more than a "tribal chieftan" as the names indicate.

I'm not so sure the Bactrian/Sogdian provinces had been so rebellious. Certainly there were serious contigents at Gaugamela (and cavalry at Granicus) from the area. Most of the unrest in the empire over the preceding century or so had been in the west: Phoenicia and some of the Asia Minor satrapies. Egypt, the province too far, was the professional "revolter".

[derek]

Paralus,

Oxyartes must have had some importance locally, otherwise marrying his daughter wouldn’t have made much difference. Even so, the sources are probably being a tad generous when they call people kings and princes. Society was tribal-based and the Sogdian definition of nobility was probably little more than a chieftain leading an extended family. Oxyartes lived up a mountain and when he surrendered, brought only five thousand cavalry with him.

My understanding was that the northeast frontier had been a constant source of trouble for the Persian Empire. Yes, these regions had troops in the Persian army, but that doesn’t prove loyalty. There were Scythians at Gaugamela yet Scythia lay beyond the empire, and the Cossaeans sent a contingent for the Arabian campaign only a few months after Alexander tried to exterminate them. When the Great King summoned his forces, the provinces would have always managed to find men to fill the quota.

Derek

[marcus]

Hi Derek,

Oxyartes must have had some importance locally, otherwise marrying his daughter wouldn’t have made much difference. Even so, the sources are probably being a tad generous when they call people kings and princes. Society was tribal-based and the Sogdian definition of nobility was probably little more than a chieftain leading an extended family. Oxyartes lived up a mountain and when he surrendered, brought only five thousand cavalry with him.

As you rightly say, the nature of Sogdian society appears to have been one of tribal chieftains - although conversely one must not forget that Maracanda, the capital of the satrapy, was a major city, and so the satrap must have clearly been set higher than all those "petty kinglings" or however we might want to name them.

That said, although Oxyartes was not satrap when he came to Alexander, he must have been fairly influential, otherwise (a) there wouldn't have been much value in marrying his daughter, and (b) making him satrap of Sogdia wouldn't have done much to solve the problem of how to keep the Sogdians quiet once he left. Therefore we must assume that, within whatever social hierarchy there was, Oxyartes must have been a fairly big cheese.

ATB

[jan]

My first introduction to the history and biography of Alexander was through the book by Arthur Weigall, a British Egyptologist and archaeologist. He did say that the story of Alexander's having fallen in love with Roxanne at first sight was probably true but that Alexander would have made a poor husband. Weigall's opinion inserted in his manuscript.

As Alexander had resisted all encouragement to marry a Macedonian, when his good friend Parmenio had so suggested, and had turned down the offer of a previous tribesman who had also offered any of his daughters to him for marriage, it does suggest that Roxanne was very special to him that instead of merely turning her into a courtesan he did respect her by marrying her in the traditional manner despite the opposition of many of his friends who objected since she was not a Macedonian.

Love seems to be the reason even though Weigall did believe that politics probably played a role in it. Were politics to have been that important it would have been wiser to have married any of King Darius's daughter for the importance of the succession of the crown of Persia. He later did that for that reason. So Roxanne clearly defies any explanation except that her beauty captivated him so much that he fell in l ove immediately and could not rest til he had her as his bride. It was said that only King Darius's wife was more beautiful than the "Little Star".
She remained with him until his death and that seems to me to reinforce her importance to him since Weigall also mentioned that upon the marriage, he had sent Barsine and his son Hercules away to return later in the journey.

[amyntoros]

As Alexander had resisted all encouragement to marry a Macedonian, when his good friend Parmenio had so suggested, and had turned down the offer of a previous tribesman who had also offered any of his daughters to him for marriage, it does suggest that Roxanne was very special to him that instead of merely turning her into a courtesan he did respect her by marrying her in the traditional manner despite the opposition of many of his friends who objected since she was not a Macedonian.

Well, Alexander overruled and/or ignored the opinions of his friends in matters of politics and warfare also, so his disregarding of their opposition does not prove it was love. And, IMO, the fact that Alexander married Roxane in the Macedonian fashion rather than the Persian indicates that this marriage was not a great political statement to all Persians, but an immediate sop to placate those of the region.

Love seems to be the reason even though Weigall did believe that politics probably played a role in it. Were politics to have been that important it would have been wiser to have married any of King Darius's daughter for the importance of the succession of the crown of Persia. He later did that for that reason. So Roxanne clearly defies any explanation except that her beauty captivated him so much that he fell in l ove immediately and could not rest til he had her as his bride. It was said that only King Darius's wife was more beautiful than the "Little Star".

Marriage to one of Darius' daughters (assuming one of them was old enough) would not have had the same immediate effect on the natives of the area. Plus, it seems obvious to me that Alexander had every intention of waiting until his conquest was complete before marrying into the Persian royal family via a grand and memorable ceremony. However, by taking Roxane as a wife at that time Alexander conferred considerable honors on Oxyartes and his family - in Bactrian/Sogdian eyes at least. As soon as he became father-in-law to Alexander, Oxyartes owed his loyalty - all his loyalty - to the self-declared new king. As Curtius (4.8.5) tells us: "To obviate any difficulties behind him that could interfere with his plans, he gave orders for 30,000 men of military age to be selected from all the provinces and brought to him in arms, to serve simultaneously as hostages and as soldiers." Roxane and her brothers also would have served as hostages for the continuing loyalty of Oxyartes himself.

She remained with him until his death and that seems to me to reinforce her importance to him since Weigall also mentioned that upon the marriage, he had sent Barsine and his son Hercules away to return later in the journey.

But what else was Alexander to do except keep Roxane with him? The purpose of a marriage in those days was to produce children – sons, most preferably - and until Roxane gave birth Alexander would have kept her with him. Imagine if he had sent her away without a child! It would have been perceived as a great insult by both her family and the Bactrian/Sogdians. Even though Alexander had Roxane (and all the others) with him, he couldn't entirely suppress restlessness in the region. A son by Roxane would have further guaranteed the loyalty and support of those in her native land, not to mention ensuring there would an Argead successor, but unfortunately Roxane's first born died in India (if we are to accept the Metz Epitome) and, for whatever reason, she was not to conceive again until the return to the west. For all we know, had her son survived, Alexander may also have sent them both back to the Persian heartland for safekeeping, as he did with Barsine. Barsine was of lesser importance in a political sense – she wasn't a guarantee for the loyalty of thousands upon thousands of frequently rebellious natives – but I don't think it is proven that he sent her away for any reason other than that she was pregnant or had already born her son. A mother and infant would have been much safer in the great palaces of the Persian heartland than on an extended campaign, and the health and survival of both was better ensured. This wasn't so easy to do once the army had travelled all the way to and through India. The distance was far greater and sending Roxane to the royal palaces in the west would have been, at that point, a long and dangerous journey, especially for a woman and a newborn. However, because the child died anyway, we will never know what Alexander might have done.

Best regards,

[Paralus]

As Alexander had resisted all encouragement to marry a Macedonian, when his good friend Parmenio had so suggested, and had turned down the offer of a previous tribesman who had also offered any of his daughters to him for marriage, it does suggest that Roxanne was very special to him that instead of merely turning her into a courtesan he did respect her by marrying her in the traditional manner despite the opposition of many of his friends who objected since she was not a Macedonian.

Love seems to be the reason even though Weigall did believe that politics probably played a role in it....

... So Roxanne clearly defies any explanation except that her beauty captivated him so much that he fell in l ove immediately and could not rest til he had her as his bride.

Oh "excuse me all to hell!" "Good friend" Parmenion? Que?

The evidence for this saccharine nonsense evidently comes from the Mills & Boon Alexander tradition.

[marcus]

As Alexander had resisted all encouragement to marry a Macedonian, when his good friend Parmenio had so suggested, and had turned down the offer of a previous tribesman who had also offered any of his daughters to him for marriage, it does suggest that Roxanne was very special to him that instead of merely turning her into a courtesan he did respect her by marrying her in the traditional manner despite the opposition of many of his friends who objected since she was not a Macedonian.

Yes, well, as has been discussed before, Weigall was an Egyptologist, and his knowledge and understanding of Alexandrian and Hellenistic affairs outside of Egypt doesn't inspire a huge amount of confidence.

Yes, indeed, Alexander had apparently turned down an offer of marriage previously, from one of the Scythian types, if I recall correctly. The fact is, though, that any marriage into the tribes north of the Caspian (or was it the Caucasus? I can't remember) would have conferred absolutely no advantage to Alexander at the time, whereas marrying into the Sogdian nobility in 328/7BC provided the one massive, huge, incalculable benefit of keeping the Sogdians quiet so that he could finally get on with his conquest of India.

While I in no way disregard the theory that Alexander might well have found Roxane desirable, Weigall is way too superficial to base his assumption that it was a love-match on the basis you describe.

Anyway, what is a "love match"? Alexander had seen Roxane once, had undoubtedly had no opportunity to get to know her, and they probably shared no common language. Negotiations for the marriage took place with Oxyartes - it would be ludicrous to suggest (as I know you haven't, so I'm not having a pop!) that Roxane had the slightest say in the matter. So the extent to which it really was "love", rather than skin-deep attraction, is very much up for debate, I'd say.

ATB

[jan]

Dodge:" Among the many captives, male and female, was the daughter of Oxyartes, Roxanne, said by the Maedonians who saw her to be the most beautiful woman of the East, since Statira, wife of Darius, was dead. She fell as captive to Alexander. But the king is stated to have fallen an equal and honest captive to her charms. He treated her with all becoming dignity-as he had Statira, - and shortly afterwards married her. This side of Alexander's character is wholly admirable. Oxyartes was not only forgiven, but received into highest favor.""
P. 502

At the time I learned of Alexander, the only book at the local library was that of Arthur Weigall and The Invisible Enemy by John Maxwell O'Brien. Since that time new books by a variety of authors have arrived on the shelves, and Weigall's has been retired.
.

[marcus]

Dodge:" Among the many captives, male and female, was the daughter of Oxyartes, Roxanne, said by the Maedonians who saw her to be the most beautiful woman of the East, since Statira, wife of Darius, was dead. She fell as captive to Alexander. But the king is stated to have fallen an equal and honest captive to her charms. He treated her with all becoming dignity-as he had Statira, - and shortly afterwards married her. This side of Alexander's character is wholly admirable. Oxyartes was not only forgiven, but received into highest favor.""
P. 502

Yes, and Dodge was a military historian, following the rather romanticised view of things that was rather prevalent in the 19th century. Not to be used as a guide!

ATB