Question about Hephaistion’s marriage

[Moffetbaby]

Hi all! I’m new here and I thought I'd start my first post off with a question that’s been bothering me:

I have a question about Hephaistion’s marriage to Drypteis . I don’t quite understand something. Everywhere I read about his marriage to Drypteis, I get the same thing, that Alexander insisted that he marry her. My question is, is there any proof of this? Couldn’t he just have fallen in love with her? I mean I know that he had a lot of his soldiers marry Persian women from noble families, but I always kind of put Hephaistion apart from the rest of his friends. I know that Alexander married her sister, but would he had forced Hephaistion to marry if he didn’t want to? I’m just curious because I keep hearing he made them marry, but I’ve never seen any proof to back it up.

[Phoebus]

Hey,

I'm not pawning this off as a certainty, by any means, but remember that the Macedonians (like the Epirotes, IIRC, and perhaps others) apparently had no real issues with polygamy. And the Hellenic world in general seems to have had no issues with mistresses, courtesans, etc.

Given this, I'd say Hephaistion could shrug his shoulders and press on--if a woman came along later who really did turn his fancy, he wouldn't be prohibited from courting her as well.

I guess what I'm saying is this:
Maybe Hephaistion did have feelings for her. Who knows? Absent of any evidence, though, I doubt it. If he didn't, though, Macedonian custom was such that I doubt he would hold a grudge against Alexander for "marrying him off". In fact, I bet he welcomed the possibility of his children being Alexander's childrens' cousins as much as his best friend did.

[Vergina Sun]

It certainly is possible that Hephaestion fell in love with Drypteis, but it could be just as possible that he didn't. I suppose we have to make our own theories for this. Hephaestion had a strong relationship with Alexander (romantic or not) and he could have just married because Alexander wanted him to. As Phoebus said, he might have delighted in the fact that his children and Alexander's would be cousins. If Hephaestion did fall in love with Drypteis, though, why did he wait for the mass marriage in Susa to get married? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Drypteis one of the prisoners taken at Issus? Maybe Hephaestion didn't really love her and married her for Alexander's sake, but we'll never know will we? Anyway, if sources did say he fell in love, we would be arguing that fact too. I suppose that's the beauty of history!

[Moffetbaby]

Thanks you both for answering. I guess you’re right. I’d never looked at it like that, even if he didn’t love her he could always take another wife later. I guess he had nothing to lose by marrying her. I guess I just questioned it because I kept hearing that Alexander instated on the marriage and I found that a bit strange.

[karen]

Moffetbaby, I suspect there's a very basic and elemental thing you're misunderstanding about marriage customs among nobility and royalty in ancient times. I think you are thinking of marriage the way we think of it, a romantic coupling formalized into a life partnership.

Ancient marriage among nobility and royalty was not that at all (usually). Marriages were arranged by fathers, not chosen by the couple themselves. Marriage was a property transaction between men, a tool for cementing political alliances between men and a means of producing heirs in a politically expedient way. If love happened to enter into it, great, but it wasn't considered necessary; the wife's duty was simply to have sex with the husband and no one else, and produce his babies, preferably sons. Nor could a queen expect to be a king's one and only, at least in Makedonia. Philip's marriages were generally about alliances -- with Epiros in the case of Olympias, Illyria in the case of Audata, etc. -- though it's argued that he fell in love with Attalos' niece Kleopatra, and that may be true, but it might actually have been a move to disempower Alexander and Olympias by allying with an enemy of theirs, Attalos. (Olympias seems to have had nothing against the other wives, so long as none displaced her son as Philip's heir.) Alexander in his turn made good and sure to tie himself to the Persian royal family by marrying women from both of its branches, as well as Roxane, whose father's alliance was very useful to him. And both kings, plus nobles including Philotas and Ptolemy, are recorded to have openly maintained mistresses.

So if Alexander asked Hephaistion to marry Drypetis, Hephaistion could have said "Yes" without that being a hindrance to any future love affairs he might have, or to his relationship with Alexander. In fact, since the two were marrying sisters, it tied them together more closely.

There was a huge element of social status in marriage customs too. It was an advantage to a house if they could marry a daughter to another house more wealthy and powerful than themselves; the big prize was to marry her to royalty. This would have applied, albeit with the sexes reversed, to Hephaistion; born an aristocrat at best, he was getting to marry royalty, and his children would have Persian royal blood in their veins.

So there is not a chance, in my opinion, he would have been reluctant just because he wasn't in love with Drypetis.

These factors are to be considered in the case of all the officers' marriages to Persian women also. If love had been a factor and these were to be the men's only marriages, I think Alexander would have had a full-scale revolt on his hands. If you look at all of them as business transactions, though, and the women as property, it makes more sense. After Alexander's death, in my opinion, the Makedonian elite didn't abandon their Persian wives because they'd had them forced on them so much as the wives, as property, were the husbands' individual investments in the fused Makedonian-Persian empire that Alexander had envisioned, and with him gone they were suddenly not so wise an investment.

Warmly,
Karen

[Moffetbaby]

Thanks for replying Karen, you certainly explained things well. I think that you’re right, for some reason I was thinking more in terms of today’s reasons for marriage, but I have a full understanding now.
Thanks again
Moffetbaby

[Semiramis]

Alexander in his turn made good and sure to tie himself to the Persian royal family by marrying women from both of its branches, as well as Roxane, whose father's alliance was very useful to him.

Karen,

I agree with much of your excellent post. One point of departure - the sources themselves don't mention alliance with Oxyartes as motive for the marriage. It may have been the case, but it's important to clarify that it's a modern conclusion based on how we think ancients felt about love and marriage and not original sources. Sources dwell on Alexander falling in love with Roxanne and her beauty, not any alliance with her father.

The two Achaemenid princesses he later married would have been of much higher social status than Roxane. One can argue that Darius' daughter would've made a more suitable "first wife".

Arrian -

"News had come in that a large number of the natives had taken refuge on the Rock of Sogdia, and among them the wife and daughters of Oxyartes the Bactrian, who had himself refused to submit to Alexander and had chosen this refuge for his family in the belief that the Rock was impregnable.

[...]

The unexpectedness of the sight was a severe shock to the natives; indeed, they were so much alarmed by the handful of Macedonian troops they could actually see, that, imagining a larger force, and fully armed at that, must be in possession, they surrendered. Many women and children were among the prisoners, notably the wife and daughters of Oxyartes.

One of these daughters was named Roxane. She was a girl of marriageable age, and men who took part in the campaign used to say she was the loveliest woman they had seen in Asia, with the one exception of Darius' wife. Alexander fell in love with her at sight; but, captive though she was, he refused, for all his passion, to force her to his will, and condescended to marry her."

Plutarch -

"As for his marriage with Roxane,whose youthfulness and beauty had charmed him at a drinking entertainment, where he first happened to see her taking part in a dance, it was, indeed a love affair, yet it seemed at the same time to be conducive to the object he had in hand. For it gratified the conquered people to see him choose a wife from among themselves, and it made them feel the most lively affection for him, to find that in the only passion which he, the most temperate of men, was overcome by, he yet forbore till he could obtain her in a lawful and honourable way."

[Semiramis]

Actually... why leave Curtius out? It's on the Pothos main area, but here it is again.

According to Curtius when Alexander became attracted to Roxane during a time when "control over his appetites was weakening"

"The man who had looked with what were merely paternal feelings on the wife and the two unmarried daughters of Darius - and with these none but Roxane could be compared in looks - now fell in love with a young girl of humble pedigree [...]. Thus the ruler of Asia and Europe married a woman who [was] part of the entertainment at dinner" (Curt. 8.4).

[amyntoros]

Just have to throw in a quick two cents here on the Roxane issue. Yes, the sources do insist that it was a love match, but it's impossible not to observe that after the marriage (and the alliance which was formed because of the marriage) Alexander was finally able to move on from Bactria/Sogdia after having spent two of the worst years of his campaign trying to defeat a people that refused to be subjugated.

I've always wondered if Alexander didn't want to be seen as the same as his father - marrying for political reasons only. The world's first Spin Doctor at work here, perhaps?

Best regards,

[Theseus]

It certainly is possible that Hephaestion fell in love with Drypteis, but it could be just as possible that he didn't. I suppose we have to make our own theories for this. Hephaestion had a strong relationship with Alexander (romantic or not) and he could have just married because Alexander wanted him to. As Phoebus said, he might have delighted in the fact that his children and Alexander's would be cousins. If Hephaestion did fall in love with Drypteis, though, why did he wait for the mass marriage in Susa to get married? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Drypteis one of the prisoners taken at Issus? Maybe Hephaestion didn't really love her and married her for Alexander's sake, but we'll never know will we? Anyway, if sources did say he fell in love, we would be arguing that fact too. I suppose that's the beauty of history!

I agree with what you said.This happened during the marriage of a lot of Alexander's generals/friends to foreign wives. I guess my understanding all this time was that Hephaestion married her because Alexander wished him to so their children could be cousins, (another bond for them to share). I do hope that he did have feelings for Drypteis though or what a miserable relationship it would have been. Maybe Alexander did notice Hephaestion showing an interest in her? We will never know as so many things with Alexander's life.

[Semiramis]

Just have to throw in a quick two cents here on the Roxane issue. Yes, the sources do insist that it was a love match, but it's impossible not to observe that after the marriage (and the alliance which was formed because of the marriage) Alexander was finally able to move on from Bactria/Sogdia after having spent two of the worst years of his campaign trying to defeat a people that refused to be subjugated.

I've always wondered if Alexander didn't want to be seen as the same as his father - marrying for political reasons only. The world's first Spin Doctor at work here, perhaps?

Best regards,

Amyntoros,

Hardly the world's first spin doctor! The Cyrus Cylinder has got to rank up there. Apparently even that ancient thing was based on earlier declarations of rulers in Babylon and surrounding regions. All decrying the awfulness of the previous regime. Promises to protect lives, property and religion. You know the drill...

Back to Roxane, I'm usually the first to quesiton the pretty stories in the sources. In this case, however, it's interesting that no "love" was mentioned regarding the marriage to the two Achaemenid princesses. Or for any others at the mass wedding at Susa. But in the case of Roxane, sources are insistent on the love match. The humble origins of Roxane too could support this idea of a love match. After all, it's entirely possible for a young man in his 20s to fall in love. Even a "pragmatic" one. Safe to say Oxyartes moved up in the world after this match.

[Fiona]

I agree with what you said.This happened during the marriage of a lot of Alexander's generals/friends to foreign wives. I guess my understanding all this time was that Hephaestion married her because Alexander wished him to so their children could be cousins, (another bond for them to share). I do hope that he did have feelings for Drypteis though or what a miserable relationship it would have been. Maybe Alexander did notice Hephaestion showing an interest in her? We will never know as so many things with Alexander's life.

One thing we do know from the sources is that she had feelings for him.

Next to her (Sisygambis) sat one of her two granddaughters who was in mourning after the recent loss of her husband, Hephaestion, and the general anguish reminded her of her personal grief.

As this is at the time of Alexander's death, she was still mourning, after eight months, the husband to whom she'd only been married for approximately four months, so that supports the idea that he may have loved her, or at least that he had kindly feelings towards her.
I have a feeling that there is another source that says that Stateira and Drypetis had been left in Susa to learn Greek, while Alexander and Hephaistion went gallivanting further east. If so, it makes me wonder if marrying these two girls, these sisters, had not been on their minds as a plan for quite some time, perhaps since Issus? Their younger brother was very young indeed, a small child, so possibly Drypetis was not that much older. It's a possibility that at Issus she wasn't yet old enough to get married, and that Alexander and Hephaistion decided that when she was, they would marry these two. Roxane intervened, but it didn't put them off their original plan, and they had it coincide with all the other marriages at Susa.
I do get the feeling, with these marriages to Stateira and Drypetis, that it was the idea of children that was the attraction, more than the wives themselves, and I think Hephaistion would have liked the idea of their children being cousins as much as Alexander did.
Fiona

[marcus]

I do hope that he did have feelings for Drypteis though or what a miserable relationship it would have been. Maybe Alexander did notice Hephaestion showing an interest in her? We will never know as so many things with Alexander's life.

I should imagine that having "feelings" for Drypetis was the very last thing that was on Alexander's or Hephaistion's minds. Drypetis was a daughter of Darius III, and even had she the charm of a hippopotamus and a face like a squashed beetle, she was the second best woman in the entire world to be married to. You don't turn down a bride like that, and you certainly don't worry about "feelings" or "love" or anything else like that. Those are bonuses.

ATB

[Semiramis]

If so, it makes me wonder if marrying these two girls, these sisters, had not been on their minds as a plan for quite some time, perhaps since Issus? Their younger brother was very young indeed, a small child, so possibly Drypetis was not that much older. It's a possibility that at Issus she wasn't yet old enough to get married, and that Alexander and Hephaistion decided that when she was, they would marry these two. Roxane intervened, but it didn't put them off their original plan, and they had it coincide with all the other marriages at Susa.
I do get the feeling, with these marriages to Stateira and Drypetis, that it was the idea of children that was the attraction, more than the wives themselves, and I think Hephaistion would have liked the idea of their children being cousins as much as Alexander did.
Fiona

Hi Fiona and Theseus,

I think I have to agree with Fiona's assessment about their ages here. When Alexander captured Darius' wife and daughters, Darius offered the older daughter's hand to Alexander. Alexander refused this, saying that she was betrothed to Mazeus. If she was betrothed but not yet married to him, that might've meant the older daughter wasn't yet of marriagable age. Let alone the younger.

However, I don't put as much stock on the idea of Alexander and Hephaistion's children being related as a motive. I also have to agree with Marcus that feelings towards the bride would have been the last thing in both Alexander and Hephaistion's minds. A marriage to Darius' daughter would have simply been so beneficial to Alexander.

In the history of the Achaemenid empire, the "correct" marriage could strengthen your claim to throne immeasurably. After taking over the throne by force, Darius the Great (not III) for example, married the wife of the previous king as soon as he could. Xerxes, the son, could legitimize his rule through his mother's ancestry if not as strongly for his father's. It also explains the brother-sister marriages, which weren't uncommon in the Persian royal family.

In Alexander's case, marrying Darius and Stateira's (let's call her I) daughter was the best thing he could do to solidify his claim to the throne. Stateira II had Impeccable bloodline from both her parents. Parysatis, the third wife, came from the other branch of the Achaemenid dynasty.

I'm sure Alexander was aware of the importance of these marriages. As per Achaemenid custom, Darius' older daughter was possibly re-named "Stateira" from "Barsine" (not to be confused with Alexander's mistress) . This is the same as Stateira I, Darius' wife and an Achaemenid princess by birthright, and shows the importance of this marriage. This also displays that Alexander was aware of Achaemenid history regarding royal marriages and re-naming the bride, so in no way unaware of the importance of this marriage. Hephaistion's marriage to Drypetis would've solidified his (and his children's) position as the second-most important man in the empire after Alexander.

Greek and Roman writers may have misunderstood the important role royal women played in Persian succession politics. Not just through being objects of marriage but by lending their support to one faction over another. However, this view explains why Roxane murdered Stateira and Drypetis immediately after Alexander's death.

However, in terms of Achaemenid succession politics, Roxane's marriage to Alexander as first wife simply doesn't fit. Notice that Alexander even had a son by Barsine but never married her. One could argue that he was in such deep trouble in Central Asia that even legitimizing his claim to the Persian empire took a backseat. That Alexander was forced to take Roxane as first wife to get himself out of deep water. I don't think there's enough evidence in the sources to support this. It's much easier to argue that in terms of practicality, taking Roxane as first wife over Darius' daughter was a "silly" decision based on love.

Just my 2 cents.

[amyntoros]

My five and a half cents here ...

(To Karen) I agree with much of your excellent post. One point of departure - the sources themselves don't mention alliance with Oxyartes as motive for the marriage. It may have been the case, but it's important to clarify that it's a modern conclusion based on how we think ancients felt about love and marriage and not original sources. Sources dwell on Alexander falling in love with Roxanne and her beauty, not any alliance with her father.

The wording of the Penguin translation of Plutarch does imply that alliance played a greater part. Interesting how translations can vary. Although the meaning is much the same, the one makes it clearer than the other.

Plutarch: Alexander 47 His marriage to Roxane was a love match, which began when he first saw her at the height of her youthful beauty taking part in a dance at a banquet, but it also played a great part in furthering his policy of reconciliation. The barbarians were encouraged by the feeling of partnership which their alliance created, and they were completely won over by Alexander’s moderation and courtesy and by the fact that without the sanctity of marriage he would not approach the only woman who had ever conquered his heart.

The two Achaemenid princesses he later married would have been of much higher social status than Roxane. One can argue that Darius' daughter would've made a more suitable "first wife".

Look though at Philip's marriages. Comparative social status (between the women) had nothing to do with the marriages themselves which are considered to have been political alliances. Dicaearchus (Athenaeus 13.57 b-e) says that "Philip always married a new wife with each new war he undertook." The lands that Philip conquered lay much closer to home and therefore establishing and maintaining the alliances was of utmost importance. Each marriage, therefore, stood on its own merits and apparently there was no consideration of the suitability of a first wife.

Amyntoros … … … Hardly the world's first spin doctor! The Cyrus Cylinder has got to rank up there. Apparently even that ancient thing was based on earlier declarations of rulers in Babylon and surrounding regions. All decrying the awfulness of the previous regime. Promises to protect lives, property and religion. You know the drill...

You're correct ... I had forgotten about Cyrus! Your remarks do, however, further my comments in another thread about whether or not (and how much) Alexander emulated Cyrus.

However, in terms of Achaemenid succession politics, Roxane's marriage to Alexander as first wife simply doesn't fit. Notice that Alexander even had a son by Barsine but never married her. One could argue that he was in such deep trouble in Central Asia that even legitimizing his claim to the Persian empire took a backseat. That Alexander was forced to take Roxane as first wife to get himself out of deep water. I don't think there's enough evidence in the sources to support this. It's much easier to argue that in terms of practicality, taking Roxane as first wife over Darius' daughter was a "silly" decision based on love.

I think that one has only to look at the sources for events preceding the marriage to find what amounts to evidence that Alexander truly needed to get himself out of deep water. Frank Holt's Alexander the Great and Bactria is a great resource for an encapsulated explanation of the attempt to do so.

(P.67 - 68 ) It was thus during the winter of 328/327 B.C. that Alexander 'recovered' from the many setbacks of the previous year and a half. What, we may ask, accounts for the apparent change in the king's fortunes? The death of Spitamenes was certainly significant, but not decisive. Conflicts between the Scythians and Alexander continued. It was rather the king's treatment of the remaining Sogdian chieftains which ameliorated the situation. Whereas Ariamazes and his kinfolk had earlier been executed by Alexander, it is notable that Oxyartes and the others were handled differently. Even before Spitamenes was dead, Alexander had softened his stand against the rulers of these remaining 'rocks'. It marked the return of the king to an earlier policy, one which actually brought him back into step with Persian practice and so finally broke the relentless cycle of Sogdian resistance.

Rather than punish the native 'hyparchs' who still opposed him, Alexander actually restored them to their ancestral positions. Their fortresses were not plundered by the winter-weary troops of Alexander; their families (including Spitamenes') were not exterminated; their followers were not enslaved; their lands were not parceled out to other natives who had surrendered long ago. Like the levies of the Persian kings, Alexander naturally siphoned away the soldiers of Bactria-Sogdiana for his own army, and established a future supply (the 'Epigoni') as well. The sons of the nobles, in particular, were kept in Alexander's camp to ensure the good behavior of their pardoned parents, but this was no onerous penalty. Oxyartes delivered all three of his sons to Alexander, though only two were required to serve with the king; one of them, Itanes, became the commander of a special squadron. More importantly, Oxyartes' daughter was wed to Alexander early in 327 B.C. This was a notable step by the king because, while his father Philip had married many times to help secure the frontiers of Macedonia, this was Alexander's first for an empire considerably enlarged beyond the Balkan world. There can be little doubt that the realities of Sogdian disaffection, and not romance, were on Alexander's mind as he married into the native nobility; Roxane was as much a bribe as a bride.

"As much a bribe as a bride." Ouch!

Best regards,