What happened to Nearchus' fleet?

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Efstathios
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What happened to Nearchus' fleet?

Post by Efstathios »

There are some stories about the fleet, and Nearchus. It isnt clear what happened to the fleet after Alexander died. Some say it just broke to seperate fleets, and others say it embarked to the east. We dont also know when and how Nearchus died.The most possible senario is that some of the ships or the entire fleet went to the east for exploration. Evidence of this are the findings at Australia, Polynesia, and even at south Africa. Coins, Greek names of places, and Greek like names of people, and other things that are from the Hellenistic era. Michael, are you aware of such findings in Australia?

The findings of the fleet could have also been used later by the Ptolemies, maybe for trade, and that would also explain the evidence that were found which were from a later hellenistic period.

To that contributes the famous antikethera mechanism. A very complicated mechanism which was used for navigation, that was essentially a small computer. It could show the position of the stars e.t.c for any chronology and place. Such a device was not needed for travels through the Aegean, because the islands are visible from place to place and you can navigate simply by looking. But it could have been more usefull to vast open seas.
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Paralus
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Well I'll be buggered!

Post by Paralus »

Strike me bloody sideways Stathi! The answer would be .....no.

Ancient Cretan Greeks in the antipodes? Not on your....or my nellie lad!

Seriously, I've no knowledge of what you write: the Polynesian/Antipodean thing. My opinion - and it is an interesting question - is that such niceties (Eastern exploration with a fleet and all it entails), after Alexander's death, will have lasted about as long as a nip of single malt at an Alco’s' conference run dry.

The Diadochoi were immensely interested in exploration, just a different kind: how much power they could accrete to themselves and at what cost. Perdiccas, methinks, had little interest in dispatching fleets of exploration and Craterus was much more interested in fleets controlling the Aegean before he crossed back to Europe.

I will, though, have a re-read of material long since consulted.

I assume you’ve finished that marvellous Aussie red?
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Post by Efstathios »

Yep. Marvelous indeed.

How would you explain the presence of hellenistic era findings in those areas? I dont have these resources now, but i will try and find something on the net. The findings are a fact. I will also remind you of the double cretan axes that were found in the States, and the ancient amphitheatre that was found in Arizona. I dont know about them, but as for the Pacific findings, the theory stands, since we dont know what happened to the fleet or Nearchus.

" Other finds have been made on the Australian mainland, including the Grecian artifacts recovered on the west coast of Cape York Peninsula a few years ago. And also the strange hand-forged bronze plate bearing three Grecian maidens in dancing pose and holding aloft their heads a long serpent, which was unearthed eight years ago at Campsie, N.S.W., near Sydney, and which antiquarians who examined the relic have identified as ancient Greek.

However, it is the lapita pottery culture of the New Caledonian island group which has largely drawn the attention of archaeologists throughout the world. The bottom most layer of the pottery has been tentatively dated to a period 300-400 BC. And since the utensils bear Grecian features it is contended by some that the culture could bear some ghostly link with one of the greatest maritime mysteries of antiquity...the fate of the lost fleet of Alexander the Great. "

from http://www.mysteriousaustralia.com/stra ... enonf.html

Read the page, it is interesting.
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Post by athenas owl »

You ask a very good question Efstathios...what happened to the fleet? I have a feeling that a lot of it sat rotting on the beaches while the Successors fought each other across Asia, Egypt and the Balkans...but I never thought it about it before and I would like to find out. The Seleucids did (maybe) avail themselves of the Persian Gulf..have just started reading about Dilmun..so that might account for some of it.
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Post by Efstathios »

One thing about ancient history is certain. There are many things that we dont know. Like the anticethera mechanism. An advanced mechanism, that was not mentioned in any source. So in the same manner there can be a lot of other things that are not mentioned in sources, or the sources that are mentioned into are lost.

You could say that if there was a connection between Greece and Australia or Polynesia, surely that would have been known at least through oral tradition. Well, nothing in oral or written tradition indicates something like that, but still, the findings are there. So, how can this be explained?

Are the findings a giant hoax? I dont think so.
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Re: What happened to Nearchus' fleet?

Post by smittysmitty »

Efstathios wrote: Evidence of this are the findings at Australia, Polynesia, and even at south Africa. Coins, Greek names of places, and Greek like names of people, and other things that are from the Hellenistic era. .

Such 'facts' can be further supported through the observation of some of Australia's wild life. Nearchus, by cross-breeding a Macedonian Python with a Paeonian Bull was able to create a new species altogether - the kangaroo!

Efstathios! I think you are spending way too much time in front of the computer.

'Mysterious Australia.Com' - mate! where on earth are you going with your study of history?

May be time to get out of the house and enrol in a legitimate educational institution.

Did make me laugh though. Well done!


cheers!
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Post by athenas owl »

Now, now..folks...when I was just a young lass I was studying archaeology, New World stuff...it was the accepted view that no way did the ancient peopling of the Amercias occur before 12 or 15 K..it simply was not possible..well now, cause I keep track a bit, it turns out that it was a bit premature to assume that...genetics and better dating techniques have altered the view.

I didn't read the site, but it is possible that Grecian items reached Australia, through trade if not the actual visit. I have a hard time imaging some intrepid sailor taking Nearchus' fleet away to the antipodes (it certainly wasn't Nearchus, he was busy, he was at the Battle of Gabiene (316/5) and later at sea, if memory serves, in the Med serving with Antigonas), but a ship=wrecked Greek might not be that far out of the possible. Japan, though it prohibited it's mariner's from leaving Japanese waters (during the Shogunates) still cast the occasional sailor up on the shores of the Americas. Clear across the Pacific.

Didn't Marco Polo have credibility issues with the folks who read his account of his travels in the Far east?

Still I don't think the fleet was "long lost", just long derelict.
Last edited by athenas owl on Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by amyntoros »

Rex Gilroy is cryptozoologist who is particularly concerned with UFO abductions - he says there is a secret NATO base in Australia studying UFO's. He considers himself to be the first and most knowledgeable researcher on the "Yowie" - a mythical Australian creature which I believe he "discovered" and which he informs us is related to both Bigfoot and the Yeti. He's also an authority on other strange beasts in Australia including some kind of panther and 30 foot long monitor lizards; in fact, he "records" sightings of just about every creature one's imagination could create but no one ever seems to be able to catch one. He owns "plaster casts" of footprints of men between 12 and 20 feet tall yet apparently has been unable to show anyone the actual footprints. Oh, and he says the ancient Egyptians also colonized Australia.
Efstathios wrote:Are the findings a giant hoax? I dont think so.

Despite the fact that his theories and findings have been continuously debunked by scholars and archaeologists alike? According to Gilroy, they're all just out to get him.

Have to go. Time to feed the fairies at the bottom of my garden. :wink:
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Post by Paralus »

Strewth Smiity! I just dropped my son off over his mate's house. They're Greek and have been claiming this as part of the Diadoch oikumene since we've known them: the flags of Hellas fly proudly at their front door.

I have always treated their assertions with polite nods of the head. It appears Stathi and Rex have severely embarrassed me! I will not relent though. this idea needs to met with firm......

What's that noise?

Strike me sideways! There be a Macedonian Yeti with the Kangaroo Krypteria in tow.

Sorry mate, gotta go! Time to execute a Harry Holt Exit stage left.......
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Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους;
Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.

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Post by karen »

He's also an authority on other strange beasts in Australia including some kind of panther and 30 foot long monitor lizards; in fact, he "records" sightings of just about every creature one's imagination could create but no one ever seems to be able to catch one.
And yet the most amazing and real photographs have been taken of these bizarre beasts!

See them here!

Truly,
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Post by Paralus »

Nothing unusual there Karen: just the normal flora 'round here.

I have something rather more definitive though: A Macedonian Yeti. This actually is the Eucumbene sub-species, found in the apline regions in Australia'a south-east. It is conjectured that they are descendents of the Argyraspids banished to the furthest frontiers of the empire after Gabiene.


Best posted as a link methinks...
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Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους;
Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.

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Post by Efstathios »

Ok. I actually didnt have time to search so i did a 1 min search and found this. I didnt look to the rest of the site, to know about Gilroy, but the specific page was interesting. I will do a proper search through books also, and i will scan them and put them here if necessary. You have turned the thread into a zoo.

And Smitty, sometimes these legitimate educational schools are only teaching you the lines in a book, and not what may be beyond them. And maybe alter them too.

But hey!!! You saw that the Australian Yeti really exists :D
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Post by athenas owl »

With my tongue firmly planted in my cheek..it just occurred to me what happened to Nearchus' fleet.

240 of them lost their prows for that big ole' send off for Hephaistion...at least that's what Diodorus says...
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Post by smittysmitty »

Efstathios wrote: And Smitty, sometimes these legitimate educational schools are only teaching you the lines in a book, and not what may be beyond them. And maybe alter them too.

Good point! disregard all that I have said.


Cheers!
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Efstathios
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Post by Efstathios »

I hope that is not ironic smitty.

With all respect to academic historians and those who write history books or make researches, some of them are good, and others maybe not including all the sources, and yet others maybe serving agendas. We have very recent examples here in Greece, about deliberate propaganda through history books that are tought at schools. In the name of Greek-Turkish friendship effort they alter things, so that one day they may even present that the Ottomans just came through the main gate of Constantinoupolis while the people and Emperor were cheering and throwing them roses.

And there are also academics that do not write what they truly believe, or have found out from research because they want to keep their prestige high.

What was there to keep the fleet from reaching Australia and Polynesia anyway? Think about it. If it happened or not it's another story. It is a part of the object for discussion of this thread.

Alexander's campaign also included the expoloration part, that is why he had a whole crew of scientists with him to write down what they saw and collect things. That is why Nearchus himself sat down and wrote his Indike, the description of what he had seen while he was sailing down the Indos river. That shows dedication to Alexander's wish and pothos for exploration, which Nearchus may had also shared, because he wrote it after Alexander's death. That is why he may had embarked on his own to continue the exploration, and maybe even establish trade for the diadochi that he alligned with.

The fleet of course could have also stayed at Greece serving the diadochi in their wars. But i think that Nearchus had far more better plans than this.
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