Itinerarium Alexandri

Recommend, or otherwise, books on Alexander (fiction or non-fiction). Promote your novel here!

Moderator: pothos moderators

User avatar
Taphoi
Hetairos (companion)
Posts: 932
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:32 pm
Location: Bristol, England, UK
Contact:

Itinerarium Alexandri

Post by Taphoi »

As the second in an occasional series of out-of-copyright works from my collection, my website at http://www.alexanderstomb.com is pleased to present Didericus Volkmann's 1871 critical edition of the Itinerarium Alexandri in the original Latin with all the alternative manuscript readings etc. You can find it as a downloadable pdf at this link:
http://www.alexanderstomb.com/main/imag ... /index.htm
Due to the fragile nature of this volume, it was necessary to photograph rather than scan the text, which results in slightly fuzzier reproduction, but I think the text is nevertheless readable.
The Itinerarium Alexandri seems to be a 4th century AD summary of Alexander's career, which bears some relation to the tradition otherwise represented mainly by Arrian.

Best wishes,

Andrew
User avatar
spitamenes
Hetairos (companion)
Posts: 329
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:51 pm
Location: St.Louis, U.S.

Re: Itinerarium Alexandri

Post by spitamenes »

andrew, the photos of this manuscript look very good. Is there a version in english that you are aware of by chance? My latin is a bit rusty, and by rusty I mean non-existent. Best wishes... Tim
User avatar
marcus
Somatophylax
Posts: 4785
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 7:27 am
Location: Nottingham, England

Re: Itinerarium Alexandri

Post by marcus »

spitamenes wrote:andrew, the photos of this manuscript look very good. Is there a version in english that you are aware of by chance? My latin is a bit rusty, and by rusty I mean non-existent. Best wishes... Tim
There was a translation that was published in the Ancient History Bulletin a few years back. I'll send it to you!

ATB
Marcus
Sine doctrina vita est quasi mortis imago
At Amazon US
At Amazon UK
bessusww
Pezhetairos (foot soldier)
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:48 pm

Re: Itinerarium Alexandri

Post by bessusww »

Im sorry for my opinions but I think Im having problems putting any value with anything that is written 700 years after the event...Regarding anything.

Today we have situations happening every day and we have hardly any Idea wht its all about...Motives reasons causes and thoughts let alone how it will be written in Centuries time
User avatar
marcus
Somatophylax
Posts: 4785
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 7:27 am
Location: Nottingham, England

Re: Itinerarium Alexandri

Post by marcus »

bessusww wrote:Im sorry for my opinions but I think Im having problems putting any value with anything that is written 700 years after the event...Regarding anything.

Today we have situations happening every day and we have hardly any Idea wht its all about...Motives reasons causes and thoughts let alone how it will be written in Centuries time
What about 400 years after the event? That's how long after Alexander Arrian was writing.

300 years? Curtius

200 years? Diodorus

Do you see no value in descriptions of the Battle of Hastings (950 years), or of Henry VIII (450 years)? Ghengis Khan (almost 800 years)?

That's a great way to dismiss all history in one go! :D

ATB
Marcus
Sine doctrina vita est quasi mortis imago
At Amazon US
At Amazon UK
bessusww
Pezhetairos (foot soldier)
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:48 pm

Re: Itinerarium Alexandri

Post by bessusww »

Marcus there is no problem reading those things written centuries later...Mostly the events can be crossed referenced and outlined through histories Archeology and the likes.

But what we cant do is draw conclusions as to who said what and how minds were thinking,,We cant say because Arian says this or that...Nothing can really be said for sure only the Historical events than have and can be cross referenced...

Most of what we say is based on personal opinions and the way we read into things...I saw a bible programe yesterday...Scholars ere forever reading into theories...They are always theories until tangable physical evidence shows up.

I agree ive read the books histories you outline and scores of other books to develop my own opinion as Im sure every one llse has.

Im not totally disregarding the books etc but 400 years later///Politics the way we tend to lean can put any kind of slant on anything we read.

Maybe bearing all this in mind the only way we would get any real answers about Alexander would be to find his body...I saw the programes the scientists proved with King Tutts Mummy...Just imagine what Science coud prove or disprove with Alexanders body
User avatar
spitamenes
Hetairos (companion)
Posts: 329
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:51 pm
Location: St.Louis, U.S.

Re: Itinerarium Alexandri

Post by spitamenes »

bessusww wrote:...Just imagine what Science coud prove or disprove with Alexanders body
What WOULD it prove or disprove? Maybe how he died could be proven once and for all. Or that Pillips tomb actually holds remains of relatives of Alexander without a doubt. Is there anything else? There's always the chance that he was buried WITH a wealth of information in the form of artifacts, scrolls etc... (Oh how id love to see the casket copy of the Iliad). But the body itself I'm not sure would give up much. Do you know of anything else to be found through the examination of his body?
bessusww
Pezhetairos (foot soldier)
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:48 pm

Re: Itinerarium Alexandri

Post by bessusww »

Spitamense plenty things could be proved.

The written accounts of historical injuries..In particullar the damage surely incured when the arrow pierced his lung.

But the real revelation would be to prove to me he had been poisoned...All the noble theories going round that it was below them and they wouldnt do it...For me they would do it they wanted to do it because Alexanders ways were peeing on there bonfires so to speak. A lot of modernistic viepoint is based and idealised on the basic point they would not stoop to poisoning.

Were it proved Alexander was poisoned then think it pretty odds on so was Heapheastion. It was very exclusive that fatal virus that seemed to be picky as to who it infected...We hear nothing in histories of any epidemics or outbreaks of this virus amongs the troops or any one else...It seemed to do the passover event in the bible it came called to see Alexander and Hepheastion than away again.

Im pretty sure the body could give us many answers of which Im sure scholars in the site could mention...The Poisoning and Arrow Wound the most prevelent..Also if the nose is broken away as is claimed Augustus broke off whilst visiting.

Did he have some impairment in his neck to cause a slant? Was he blond?How tall? Thre ammont of wounds and injuries.Evidence of if he was a far too heavy drinker as some stated him Alcoholic.
agesilaos
Strategos (general)
Posts: 2180
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2002 3:16 pm
Location: LONDON

Re: Itinerarium Alexandri

Post by agesilaos »

Since the way the body would be identified would be by matching the wounds any discrepancies would be more likely to lead to a rejection of the identification of the corpse; nor can we be sure any evidence of poisoning would have survived the mummification process. The body would just be a relic, give me Ptolemies annotated copy of Kallisthenes anytime!

You are right that the value of this late material is slim but it is preserving earlier works and that is useful in judging the various traditions. Off the top of my head there is the description of Alexander in the proem which is totally at variance with other descriptions; beard, dark hair etc, which is interesting in that this is really a description of the emperor to whom the work is dedicated! In the battle of Issos the fact that the missiles flew so thickly they collided and lost their force is a common 'Vulgate' motif alien to the Arrianic tradition and finally there is a description of the Battle at the Polytimetos that seems to stem from a tradition not found in any other extant source. By isolating the more frequent uses of Arrian we can judge the author's ability as a redactor and thus the value of the variant traditions found which in turn can be weighed against the same stories in other sources and so on.

A critical text of the original language is always important as translators have to make decisions with which we might not agree and rarely have to justify them; occaisionally these matter. :shock:

Oops! Forgetting my manners, thank you for posting this text , Taphoi. :oops:
When you think about, it free-choice is the only possible option.
bessusww
Pezhetairos (foot soldier)
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:48 pm

Re: Itinerarium Alexandri

Post by bessusww »

Scientific testing has been shown to reveal What peopleate prior to death...If any hair is found hair folicles are used to determine toxines and or Drugs.

If you ever watched the Tests done on the King tutt Mummy...From a half decent particle taken from DNA inside the thicker bones////The found out his ginetic origins..Related all the mummys...Found his father etc etc etc.

They could and did discover degenerate ailments consequently inherent through Ineer family breeding.

A starting point as you say with any Id of Alexanders mummy would be 2 obviois if they were there.

1/ Evidence of broken Nose

2/Evidence of what would be an obvious rib cage chest wound.

Im sure Andrew Chugg has outlined other things to look for just by a overall glance of the body.

Indeed and DNA could be compared to any remains found in the Royal tomb.

We have bits and pieces and we have written sources...We take it as we interprit...Somethings will never be explained.

But his body for me would open a new whole era of Alexander books with some spaces of our jigsaw in place.

Maybe even crude and I apologise..Studies and examinations may find anal damage ...The headers on pothos does say Sexuality maybe rectum tears etc could indicate Homosexual activities...And sorry to be crude Id never imagine anyone giving it to him up the rectum
User avatar
spitamenes
Hetairos (companion)
Posts: 329
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:51 pm
Location: St.Louis, U.S.

Re: Itinerarium Alexandri

Post by spitamenes »

agesilaos wrote:Oops! Forgetting my manners, thank you for posting this text , Taphoi. :oops:
Yes, thank you Taphoi, very interesting. And Marcus, thanks for the translation!
User avatar
marcus
Somatophylax
Posts: 4785
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 7:27 am
Location: Nottingham, England

Re: Itinerarium Alexandri

Post by marcus »

spitamenes wrote:
agesilaos wrote:Oops! Forgetting my manners, thank you for posting this text , Taphoi. :oops:
Yes, thank you Taphoi, very interesting. And Marcus, thanks for the translation!
My pleasure. :P

ATB
Marcus
Sine doctrina vita est quasi mortis imago
At Amazon US
At Amazon UK
User avatar
spitamenes
Hetairos (companion)
Posts: 329
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:51 pm
Location: St.Louis, U.S.

Re: Itinerarium Alexandri

Post by spitamenes »

bessusww wrote:
Were it proved Alexander was poisoned then think it pretty odds on so was Heapheastian
Andrew has a couple very good points in his "death of Hepheistian" video on alexanders tomb.com .if I remember correctly he states, (1) there was nothing in the sources that give the impression he was poisoned. (2) as he was recovering his doctor left his side to watch some games or something and Hepheistian took the opportunity to indulge in a full boiled chicken and some wine. Which during a recovery from a serious sickness like Typhoid can be fatal in of itself. So although its possible he was poisoned, I don't see any foundation for the theory to stand on. But I agree,.. it sure is a possibility.
User avatar
marcus
Somatophylax
Posts: 4785
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 7:27 am
Location: Nottingham, England

Re: Itinerarium Alexandri

Post by marcus »

spitamenes wrote:... (1) there was nothing in the sources that give the impression he was poisoned. (2) as he was recovering his doctor left his side to watch some games or something and Hepheistian took the opportunity to indulge in a full boiled chicken and some wine. Which during a recovery from a serious sickness like Typhoid can be fatal in of itself. So although its possible he was poisoned, I don't see any foundation for the theory to stand on.
Yes. Also, about nine months separated the deaths of Hephaestion and Alexander, and the deaths occurred in two different cities. There's no particular reason why one should read anything sinister into the two deaths.

ATB
Marcus
Sine doctrina vita est quasi mortis imago
At Amazon US
At Amazon UK
the_accursed
Pezhetairos (foot soldier)
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:22 am
Location: R'lyeh

Re: Itinerarium Alexandri

Post by the_accursed »

marcus wrote:Yes. Also, about nine months separated the deaths of Hephaestion and Alexander, and the deaths occurred in two different cities. There's no particular reason why one should read anything sinister into the two deaths.

ATB
Had Alexander died shortly after Hephaestion did, it would have seemed even more suspicious. Had Hephaestion died after Alexander, as the new no. 1, it would have seemed still more suspicious. That they died in different cities mean nothing.

It's peculiar to me how, in the case of Philip's death, most people agree "cui bono" is sufficient to make Alexander's involvement a near certainty. In Alexander's case on the other hand, even the two previous assassination attempts mean little to nothing. Cui bono? No one, apparently. Not Antipater, as he surely had no reason to fear Alexander. Not the generals, as there was neither wealth nor power to gain from Alexander's death. And not the soldiers, as they surely loved their delusional, murderous, orientalising king. As did the Persians, the Greeks and the many other peoples who got a taste of Alexander's benevolent rule.

Not that my suspicions mean anything, either. Without hard evidence - an examined corpse - all there is is just rhetoric.
Post Reply