Treasury of Atreus

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Alexias
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Treasury of Atreus

Post by Alexias » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:05 pm

In 'Mycenae Agamemnon's capital' by Elizabeth French (who excavated at Mycenae with her father A J B Wace), when discussing the Hellenistic history of the site, she says
The treasuries he (Pausanius) mentions must be the tholos tombs several of which remained partially visible. It has been suggested that they became known as treasuries because of the wealth found within them by looters. Looting may have occurred during the Hellenistic period as we know that Alexander allowed his troops to plunder the Macedonian royal graves.
I couldn't find a reference to this in the sources, but Alexander must have been very short of cash before leaving for Asia. Or he, and perhaps others, felt that in cases of necessity, their ancestors wealth' belonged to them.

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delos13
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Re: Treasury of Atreus

Post by delos13 » Wed May 24, 2017 3:25 pm

Alexias, do you know from where the information is coming that Alexander allowed his troops to plunder the Macedonian royal tombs?

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Paralus
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Re: Treasury of Atreus

Post by Paralus » Thu May 25, 2017 6:35 am

I do believe Elizabeth French might have confused her Macedonian kings. Pyrrhos lost the support of the Macedonians prior to his last disastrous campaign in the Peloponnese when, after securing Macedon, he allowed his Gauls to ransack the royal tombs. Alexander hardly had his father cremated and interred only to allow his troops to plunder his tomb!
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Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους;
Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.

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delos13
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Re: Treasury of Atreus

Post by delos13 » Thu May 25, 2017 2:30 pm

Thank you, Paralus. I dont know much about Pyrrhos, just the most common facts but i think that after alexander's conquests there was more to plunder. Anyway, it is frustrating when people who are considered knowledgible in specific areas dont bother to point out their sources (i mean E. French). I understand how much we dont know and educated guesses are part of job description but those educated guesses should be stated as such not as a given fact.

Alexias
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Re: Treasury of Atreus

Post by Alexias » Thu May 25, 2017 6:00 pm

Ah, that's interesting about Pyrrhus. It might partly explain the rebuilding of part of the walls at Mycencae in the Hellenistic period. I think there was a new tower built in the western wall.

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Paralus
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Re: Treasury of Atreus

Post by Paralus » Sat May 27, 2017 4:20 am

Well, Mycenae is a hop, skip and a jump from Argos where Pyrrhos perished in last, yet again ill fated campaign. A date for the walls would indicate one way or the other though there is no literary note of Pyrrhos annoying the Mycenaeans that I can call to mind. The looting of the Macedonian royal tombs certainly is - as one would expect. Poor old Pyrrhos, having returned broke and broken from Italy, had to pay his mercenaries somehow and turning a blind eye was an inexpensive method!
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Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους;
Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.

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Alexias
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Re: Treasury of Atreus

Post by Alexias » Sun May 28, 2017 7:12 pm

I haven't been able to find a date for the rebuilding of the walls at Mycenae, but I think the Argives might have had a hand in it. They destroyed Mycenae and Tiryns in 468 BC, and if they allowed Pyrrhos' troops to raid the tombs at Mycenae (or weren't in a position to prevent it) approx. 272 BC, they may have decided to prevent something similar happening again and protect any treasure that was left (but that is guesswork).

I hunted though my photos, and came up with this fortuitous one (I think that is the Hellenistic tower but not 100% sure. It's about the right position though).

Image

There's not a lot to see at Argos. Here's the main street leading to the theatre

Image

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Re: Treasury of Atreus

Post by Paralus » Mon May 29, 2017 1:12 pm

Typical of Greece: the arable land is used and near every settlement is on a hilltop or mountainside! (Yes, there are other reasons). Did a trip back in 2007 and it was incredible how most towns are off any useful ground - some even clinging to edges!
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Where Phormio destroyed two Peloponnesian fleets in 427
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Achaia
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Achaia
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Paralus
Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους;
Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.

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Alexias
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Re: Treasury of Atreus

Post by Alexias » Mon May 29, 2017 7:34 pm

Yes, Delphi, of course perched up on the hillside, and the Argive Plain is typical - a ring of hill forts eying each other over the fertile (and perhaps waterlogged) plain - Argos, Mycenae, Midea and Tiryns. The exception is Tiryns, which kept getting flooded!

Image

View from Midea, Argos is off to the right and Tiryns is down by the brown hill.

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Paralus
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Re: Treasury of Atreus

Post by Paralus » Tue May 30, 2017 12:05 pm

Very much so - especially the Peloponnese.
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Looking across to Argos
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The hotel was at the bottom
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Paralus
Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους;
Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.

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Re: Treasury of Atreus

Post by Paralus » Tue May 30, 2017 12:10 pm

Been a while since the kids looked that young! Thread's starting to resemble a travelogue. Best start looking for a date for those Hellenistic walls before you feel compelled to bring it back to the point! Nice reminiscing though.Had a marvelous Macedonian red in a restaurant in Delphi. Be nice to go back.
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The famous gate.
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Paralus
Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους;
Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.

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Xenophon
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Re: Treasury of Atreus

Post by Xenophon » Wed May 31, 2017 1:33 am

Nothing wrong with Travelogues and Photographs, especially for those who have never been, or can't go for a variety of reasons - which would be the majority of Pothosians!!
That's why System1988's posts are always welcome.......

It allows the experience to be shared, at least to a degree, even if we can't smell the olive groves. :)

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Paralus
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Re: Treasury of Atreus

Post by Paralus » Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:33 pm

Well, in that case Old Man...
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Propylaia and poser.
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Acropolis from the rooftop bar of the Attalos Hotel
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Stoa of Attalos
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Paralus
Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους;
Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.

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Paralus
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Re: Treasury of Atreus

Post by Paralus » Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:39 pm

May as well bring it back to some sort of relevance.
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Antipatros' unintended winter holiday destination: Lamia.
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Gulf of Corinth from Delphi.
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Mt Olympus.
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Paralus
Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους;
Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.

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system1988
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Re: Treasury of Atreus

Post by system1988 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:24 pm

Xenophon wrote:Nothing wrong with Travelogues and Photographs, especially for those who have never been, or can't go for a variety of reasons - which would be the majority of Pothosians!!
That's why System1988's posts are always welcome.......

It allows the experience to be shared, at least to a degree, even if we can't smell the olive groves. :)
To answer to a good old friend (Xenophon) with whom we share a common acquaintance who has in turn, mentioned us both in one book, I send to you the following 3 photos from the very interesting archaeological site, the Orraon of Molossia (Epirus). I had a dig going there nearby once and I was told that the Orraon was a must-see.

The Orraon was founded in 4th BC while Alketas the First, king of Molossoi was in power (385 B.C). The choosing of the certain site was made in order for the trade route with South to be controlled as well as for the military path which was vital for the kingdom's defence. Alketas had two sons: Arrybas (grandfather of King Pyrros the First of Epirus) and Neoptolemos II (father of Olympias and mother of Alexander the Great). In 168 B.C the village of Orraon was destroyed by Roman general Emilius Paulus. What is remarkable is the fact that it has the only houses of early hellenistic era that still have their upper floor still intact in all of Greece. One can distinguish the openings for the holding parts that held the upper floors as well as the windows.
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