Pergamon Replica

Discuss the culture of Alexander's world and his image in art

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bessusww
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Pergamon Replica

Post by bessusww »

Hi Porthonians...Ive just today returned from a holiday to Kusadasi Turkey...Its fare to say it had its ups and downs and tried to get a little trace history and fell for Alexander its fair to say It was pretty slim...Though my highlight was chatting to a History teacher and a politics teachere from Istanbul holidaying in Kusadasi...The history teachewrs Specialilitry was pre Alexander and babylonian and Hitite...His knowledge on Alexander was pretty good and fair to say held Alexander in good regard pro and against his life and ways.

What did suprise me and enlihghtened me to the way history has changes was my Visit to Ephisus and the way it in now 5 miles away from the sea...Yet in Alexanders day the market street led straight to the sea harbour and I could imagine the day to day life of the Shops Brothel and the toilets...Alexander got a good intro from the guide but as we know Alexander didnt stay anywhere long enough for any Buildings to be directly attributed to him.

Anyway on to my point...As a rule I find Alexander trinkets Rings pendants...Even at Ephisus a guy tried to sell me what he claimed an original Byzantine Coin...Upon talking to shop owners it became clear that infact its illegal punishable by prison to look for those coins in Turkey.

The main thing I have always looked for is a replica of the Pergamon statue...Ive looked all over Greece and even asked on Pothos if they existed in Turkey and as far as I could recall Pothos replies were negative.

3 days into my holiday I had the day to myself and walked up to a place called Ladies beach..I looked in all the shops sewlling towels fridge magnets etc etc ...I came to thge end of the beachfront and turned left up a side alley...Out of my eye corner I saw what looked like small bust figures of Aristotlr about 5 inches tall so I crossed over to take a look and they were among a few different sculpures eros was another one then I noticed a distinctive Pergamon likeness to 2 the same size.

I know what the Pergamon Bust looks like so got excited and asked the price= 15 euros. Having mentioned the price he asked if I wanted a bigger one he said was an actual cast replica commisioned from the Istanbul Museum. He brought it out and indeed it was with the nose section reconstructed. Anyway I snapped it up and is definately the prize of my Alexander busts giving me a licence to get rid of one or 2 i know looked wrong but bought them anyway as they were supposed to be Alexander.

On my final day I had some money left and went back and bought the other one in the shop.

When I get more relaxed after the traveling Ill try take a picture and show porthonians for an opinion..I know they are right and am sure you will agree..And i think I may put one on Ebay..Im not advertising here but thought id give Pothonians the chance to see it.
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Re: Pergamon Replica

Post by sikander »

Greetings,

For those interested, this site has some rather good replicas of several things Makedonian:
http://www.ancientsculpturegallery.com/S002.html
bessusww
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Re: Pergamon Replica

Post by bessusww »

SIKANDER

THANKS for the link I tried to put pictures on the board and tried many angles pictures just cant do this bust justice...The nearest i could do was E mail them Via Facedbook to Janet who is a pothos Moderator

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Re: Pergamon Replica

Post by marcus »

sikander wrote:Greetings,

For those interested, this site has some rather good replicas of several things Makedonian:
http://www.ancientsculpturegallery.com/S002.html
Their replica of the Pergamum head is pretty good - but somewhat pricey!

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Re: Pergamon Replica

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bessusww wrote:3 days into my holiday I had the day to myself and walked up to a place called Ladies beach..I looked in all the shops sewlling towels fridge magnets etc etc ...I came to thge end of the beachfront and turned left up a side alley...Out of my eye corner I saw what looked like small bust figures of Aristotlr about 5 inches tall so I crossed over to take a look and they were among a few different sculpures eros was another one then I noticed a distinctive Pergamon likeness to 2 the same size.

I know what the Pergamon Bust looks like so got excited and asked the price= 15 euros. Having mentioned the price he asked if I wanted a bigger one he said was an actual cast replica commisioned from the Istanbul Museum. He brought it out and indeed it was with the nose section reconstructed. Anyway I snapped it up and is definately the prize of my Alexander busts giving me a licence to get rid of one or 2 i know looked wrong but bought them anyway as they were supposed to be Alexander.
Thanks for the heads up - as I'll be at Ephesus around 8/9 August, I shall have a look around - now I know where to look!

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Re: Pergamon Replica

Post by Paralus »

bessusww wrote: He brought it out and indeed it was with the nose section reconstructed. Anyway I snapped it up and is definately the prize of my Alexander busts giving me a licence to get rid of one or 2 i know looked wrong but bought them anyway as they were supposed to be Alexander.
Good on you Kenny. Haven't got to Turkey yet. Rest assured I will though - perhaps when I follow my grandfather's medals through Gallipoli (one of the last two off), Moquet Farm and Villers Bretonneux. Unfortunately not the time this time - though I tried to organise it.
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Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.

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bessusww
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Re: Pergamon Replica

Post by bessusww »

Marcus

Good luck with your trip to Ephisus and If you get as good a guide as we did its pretty good...Alexander does get initial mention but the phaswe of Ephisus that became grand is down to his general that follewed as ruler of the District. Tours of the City and especially what was an official brothel right next to the Public baths and toilets was smile fetching. It seemed legalised Prostitution was a way of life and maybe safer for the girls in the trade than now.

Good mention is made of the statues heads missing assumed to be caused by the Christian Pagan purges. But please be aware when you come out theres plenty of people trying to pull apararent Byzantine coins from under the counter at about 120 euros. I wastempted you never know. I was later informed about such things in a silver shop in Kusadasi apparently some dutch botanists were looking at plants at Ephisus and were fined a huge amount.

The same shop keeper said as a boy he lived with his father somewhere near Miletus and his father was fetching water from the river...The Aithorities accused him of looking for Byzantine coins and he went to prison for a while.On the same note if you happen to come across these coins by accident your allowed to keep them but to look for them is a serioes crime.

When in the area have a good luck round and maybe try the Horse Safari. its a good few hours and I would think the horses are very similay especially size wize to the Macedonian horses not like the huge horse Oliver Stone had Colin Farrel on.

Maybe be only careful with the Mosquitos though near the forest...Ive traveled Greece.Rhodes.Halkidiki,Corfu and never been bothered with mosquitos.The ones we did find in Turkey were very nasty to the extreme of bood running down your body from the bites and causing lots of swelling. Maybe you can offer me advice on the Best mosquito repellents,,,Ive read up about DEET. Appears to be corrosive but id advice good repelents near any trees.

If you need directions to the shop where the Pergamon statues were ill try my best to direct...I couldnt find any like them anywqhere in Kusadasi..There were smaller versions but they didnt look right my daughter said they looked more like Zombies than Alexander

One thing is certain though I got more of a feel for the landscape of Alexander than I did in Greece even though I couldnt find any trinkets only the ones I mentioned.
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Re: Pergamon Replica

Post by artemisia »

Cast replicas of the Pergamon head are for sale in the Istanbul museum, at least in 1993 I got mine from there. I dont remember the price, but it was not expensive.
In Greek museum shops they sell casts of the Pella head, Akropolis head, Olympia head, Pella statuette, the little heads from the tomb of Philip, the relief with Hephaistion.
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Re: Pergamon Replica

Post by marcus »

artemisia wrote:Cast replicas of the Pergamon head are for sale in the Istanbul museum, at least in 1993 I got mine from there. I dont remember the price, but it was not expensive.
In Greek museum shops they sell casts of the Pella head, Akropolis head, Olympia head, Pella statuette, the little heads from the tomb of Philip, the relief with Hephaistion.
When I was at the Archaeological Museum in Istanbul (2006) there weren't any on sale that I could see. However, I'll be back there (in about three weeks - yay! :D ) so if I get time I shall have another look.

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Re: Pergamon Replica

Post by Alexias »

artemisia wrote:In Greek museum shops they sell casts of the Pella head, Akropolis head, Olympia head, Pella statuette, the little heads from the tomb of Philip, the relief with Hephaistion.
These don't appear to be available online, but courtesy of the wonderful system1988 I have just acquired full-sized replicas of the first two, and hope to be able to get the Hephaestion relief at some point.
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Re: Pergamon Replica

Post by system1988 »

Alexias wrote:
artemisia wrote:In Greek museum shops they sell casts of the Pella head, Akropolis head, Olympia head, Pella statuette, the little heads from the tomb of Philip, the relief with Hephaistion.
These don't appear to be available online, but courtesy of the wonderful system1988 I have just acquired full-sized replicas of the first two, and hope to be able to get the Hephaestion relief at some point.

Thank you very much for your kind words. The Hephaestion relief is waiting for you!
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Re: Pergamon Replica

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Alexias wrote:
artemisia wrote:In Greek museum shops they sell casts of the Pella head, Akropolis head, Olympia head, Pella statuette, the little heads from the tomb of Philip, the relief with Hephaistion.
These don't appear to be available online, but courtesy of the wonderful system1988 I have just acquired full-sized replicas of the first two, and hope to be able to get the Hephaestion relief at some point.

That's terrific - to have such a good friend! Just thought I'd let you know that the Pella statuette is available online here. I bought mine years ago via Ebay. It was also shipped from Greece but I can't recall whether or not this is the same company. The price is good though - I seem to remember paying over $160 plus shipping. The first shipment was a disaster because the statuette was broken into three or four pieces, however I sent photographs online and they replaced it immediately. It's a lovely little (or not quite so little) thing. I still have the broken pieces stashed away somewhere. :lol:

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Re: Pergamon Replica

Post by system1988 »

amyntoros wrote:
Alexias wrote:
artemisia wrote:In Greek museum shops they sell casts of the Pella head, Akropolis head, Olympia head, Pella statuette, the little heads from the tomb of Philip, the relief with Hephaistion.
These don't appear to be available online, but courtesy of the wonderful system1988 I have just acquired full-sized replicas of the first two, and hope to be able to get the Hephaestion relief at some point.

That's terrific - to have such a good friend! Just thought I'd let you know that the Pella statuette is available online here. I bought mine years ago via Ebay. It was also shipped from Greece but I can't recall whether or not this is the same company. The price is good though - I seem to remember paying over $160 plus shipping. The first shipment was a disaster because the statuette was broken into three or four pieces, however I sent photographs online and they replaced it immediately. It's a lovely little (or not quite so little) thing. I still have the broken pieces stashed away somewhere. :lol:

Best regards,
Thank you for your kind words. I understand , a visitor, or a person far away ignores certain facts and can't always visite the official museum state shops. I myself bought in Tunisia certain art objects and now i simply consider them just plainly tolerable since they are not real copies of the originals. But the sunlight was strong,the perfumes wonderful,and the tynisian young sellers so persuasive...

I visited the relative site out of mere curiosity. I am sorry to be the one to tell you that, but what you bought itsn't the Pella statuette.It is something that resembles the Pella statuette! Only the officialy instituted shops of the greek museums are authorized and thus able to reproduce down to the absolute detail and correct measurements their original desplays and that work is done from specialist scultpures and craftsmen. The relative objects are accompagnied by official verifications documents of the Ministry in jurisdiction.

All people are entitled to their own tastes and thus consider the objects of the arts at commercial shops beautiful, terrific etc and of course buy them while in visiting the country or online. But do never make the mistake to believe that what you are holding is a real copy unless you bought it from the museum's store itself. While on the subject I would like to add while visiting the site you posted I did come across sone objects completely which were totally fictional- and by that I mean that they do not follow the originals in any way! (especialy the weapons..)

Best regards.
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Re: Pergamon Replica

Post by Alexias »

amyntoros wrote:
That's terrific - to have such a good friend! Just thought I'd let you know that the Pella statuette is available online here. I bought mine years ago via Ebay. It was also shipped from Greece but I can't recall whether or not this is the same company. The price is good though - I seem to remember paying over $160 plus shipping. The first shipment was a disaster because the statuette was broken into three or four pieces, however I sent photographs online and they replaced it immediately. It's a lovely little (or not quite so little) thing. I still have the broken pieces stashed away somewhere. :lol:

Best regards,
Thanks very much for the link, Amyntoros. I might be tempted!

Systen1988, I always understood that in Greek tourist shops you could differentiate museum replicas by the metal seal attached. However, when you are young, don't have much money, and can't get to the museum shops, cheap tourist replicas seem wonderful, and I still love mine!
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Re: Pergamon Replica

Post by amyntoros »

Alexias wrote:
Systen1988, I always understood that in Greek tourist shops you could differentiate museum replicas by the metal seal attached. However, when you are young, don't have much money, and can't get to the museum shops, cheap tourist replicas seem wonderful, and I still love mine!
Same thing applies when you are old(er) and don't have much money! :lol: I do understand what System1988 is saying though, but I really can't complain about my Pan-Alexander statue even if it isn't a museum copy. I had it for years before the Alexander exhibition came to the Onassis Center in New York, bringing the original Pella statuette with it. I must have made half a dozen trips to see the exhibition and I really couldn't find any discernable difference between my "copy" and the original, except for the patina. I seem to recall that when I bought it the sellers advertised that they had sole rights to make the copies and that they did have access to the original for measurements, etc. It may not be true (cannot find my file containing all certificates of authentication, including my X-men Gambit statue!) but I'm very happy with the little guy.

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