Greek Weapons Iron or Bronze?

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jasonxx

Greek Weapons Iron or Bronze?

Post by jasonxx »

Im writing for clarification. Over in the UK we have a Channel 4 Game show based in the British Museum. I just forget its name.

Anyway todays theme was 5th Century Athens. Philosophers etc. It was impresive and kinda shemeful to see all that Greek stuff basically pilfered . I had my eyes open for the statue of Alexander which is there.

I was stumped with a question. It Asked what material was used for the weapons?

the Choices were Iron Bronze or something else. I was pretty sure Ancient Greek Weapons were Bronze and was surprised with the answer been Iron. Was I wrong?

Kenny
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Paralus
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BEEEEP! Wrong.....

Post by Paralus »

Sorry Kenny, but that answer is......wrong!

Bronze will have been the metal of the Myceneans and the Trojan war - something that more readily sticks in the public mind.
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paniskos

Post by paniskos »

hm I think the metalic defensive equipement during the archaic, classical and hellenistic times was most likely made of copper or a similar amalgam.

Iron weapons are stronger but at the same time much heavier and considerable less elastic. That means I believe the offensive weapons and the blades should be made of iron while the defensive mostly of copper (well probable certain parts of the composite cuirasses which are a combination of linen and leather with metallic parts and rarely scales may consist of other metals as well)

I also recall all that references of hoplites covered with copper, like lets say the comments of the Athenians sent to assist the Egyptian revolts against the Persian empire in the mids of 5th cent thus describing them as dressed in copper or lets say all those epithets (few out of the hundreds) given to polemic gods (Ares and Athena) which were indicating that those gods bear copper weapons (Chalkaia, Chalkothorax)

..maybe I m wrong though :?: ...but still I have seen copper made greaves, helmets and cuirasses all from classical and preclassical era in museums....not to mention that the full metal spartan "kodonoschemos" thorax (bell-shaped in english?) was made of copper

The iron blades were supposed to penetrate the copper armour parts which I think its "softer" than iron part, right?
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Post by Efstathios »

I think that iron was introduced in the hellenic area by the Dorians, around 1.100 b.c. ,right after the Troyan war.(If the Troyan war happened in 1200 b.c and not before).
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dean
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The Troyan war or siege?

Post by dean »

Hello,
.(If the Troyan war happened in 1200 b.c and not before).
The Troyan war- it seems so common a term but we don't here of the Tyrian war but of the siege of Tyre- it seems strange that we should talk about a war when really we should be talking about a siege.

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Dean
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jasonxx

Post by jasonxx »

Siege of Troy. I guess those Trojans were lucky Alexander wasnt outside those walls. Alexander has been hailed by many as the Greatest Siege General. Ant Tyre has to be a bloody masteroiece of gaul and tenacity.

Im a little unsure but did Tyre Hold out indefinatelyu against Nebbacanezer.He sure has some accolaids does Alexander. To me the Sugar Ray Robinson an all rounder.

Regards

Kenny
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Re: The Troyan war or siege?

Post by marcus »

dean wrote:Hello,
.(If the Troyan war happened in 1200 b.c and not before).
The Troyan war- it seems so common a term but we don't here of the Tyrian war but of the siege of Tyre- it seems strange that we should talk about a war when really we should be talking about a siege.

Best regards,
Dean
I think that it's partly because of the length of time involved; but also because it's clear that for the first nine years or so there was so much fighting away from the city - up and down the coast (where, for example, Briseis was captured) - that it was properly a war, in which a long-term siege took place.

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paniskos

Post by paniskos »

well it took Alex quite a time to sack Tyros and Gaza...always compared to his prior advance through Asia Minor :P
..damn those Phoenicians 8)
I think that iron was introduced in the hellenic area by the Dorians, around 1.100 b.c. ,right after the Troyan war.(If the Troyan war happened in 1200 b.c and not before).
back to the thread, is there anybody who has any info about defensive weapons (cuirasses, greaves,helmets) made of iron in classical times?
I myself think they were all made of copper
The "hoplon" shields were made of wood and copper leaves I think...full metal shields -if ever constructed- were just for ceremonial reasons
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Post by Efstathios »

When i was looking for information about the corinthian helmets (like the one in my avatar), i read that they were made of bronze or brass.I dont know about the shields and weapons.I believe though that the blades were made of iron.One of the reasons that the Achaioi were defeated by the Dorians was that they had copper blades while the Dorians had iron blades.I will look for more info
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Post by Paralus »

The blades were definitely iron. The hoplon was, indeed, usually wood with a metal (copper seems to me to be correct - or bronze) covering. They were, unsurprisingly, heavy to carry all day. One imagines Arnie arms on the left of each hoplite.

One wouldn't want to put on too much weight either. Imagine having to re-size your curiass every other year!
Paralus
Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους;
Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.

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