Greece before Alexander

[system1988]

I took these photos while in the National Museum of Athens and posted it here:

http://s1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg6 ... t%20stand/

All the spear- butts are dedications to the Olympia Sanctuary (5th BC) and some carry inscriptions with their dedications on both sides.

The helmets are from the 6th BC to 5th BC.

From the battlefield of Thermopylae are the arrow heads.

Best regards to all

[Xenophon]

Many thanks for sharing these photos....much appreciated as the next best thing to getting to the museums in person !

[system1988]

Many thanks for sharing these photos....much appreciated as the next best thing to getting to the museums in person !

Thank you for your kind words. The displayed artifacts are very important but the photos themselves do not include the legends that explain their origins. It was a very fast visit to be frank. Imagine that all the savrotires are inscribed due to their votive use. I will fix the legends issue when i return from my vacation and thus I won't log in every day.

Since you like archaeological photography (and I hope others share that love with you) I created this photobucket album. It is a collection of random photos taken in museums over time.

http://s1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg6 ... %20photos/


7) Part opf the trophy of Marathon (used to be 10m high). This is the monument set up on the plain of Marathon to commemorate the defeat of the Persians in 490 BC.
6) Unpluged Macedonian tomb (you can spot the golden wreath)
5) Macedonian tomb before the excavation
4) Macedonian tomb
3) 5th century warrior's tomb - Macedon (in his mouth you can see the coin for the underworld journey)
2) The enormous palace where Alexander was raised
1) Persian gold jewlery

Again these are rough descriptions at best. Sorry for the inverted numbering the photos were posted in the wrong order.

Best regards!

Pauline

[Xenophon]

Great photos !!

One in particular is of extreme interest, namely the 5 th century warrior grave, which is, I take it, one of the hundreds that have been excavated at Archontiko.

I have been seeking information about these warrior graves for literally years !! I am a scholar of Greek and Roman military history, and one of the threads of it that I am studying is the equipment of Greek and Macedonian warriors.

The warrior in the grave is a 'hoplite', and one can make out that he was buried with at least 2 spears (Spearheads visible lower right) There doesn't appear to be any 'sauroters' ( spike at the end of the hoplite 'dory' or large fighting spear) so these may be a pair of 'longche' ( dual purpose throwing or thrusting spears shorter than the dory), the 'aspis' ( traditional rimmed hoplite shield), an 'Illyrian' style helmet ( almost all the excavated Archontiko helmets are of this type, many with the famous gold masks over the normally open face ).

Full reports have not been published on these finds because the excavations are on-going and will be for years, but newpaper reports refer to remains of 'leather' breastplates being found. Now this is a very important find, for it may settle a long debate about whether the Hoplite's 'thorakes' or 'spolas' was generally made of leather or linen. If what has been found in some graves ( not all probably, for not all hoplites wore body armour in the 5/4 C BC) is the long rotted remains of leather ( often simply called "organic matter"), then the armour in question was almost certainly leather - and that is what I am reasonably sure it was, linen being too rare and costly to make such armour generally, though linen armour, probably quilted was worn by the very rich nobles and Kings in Persia. Alexander himself wore a captured Persian linen corselet......

Anyway, before I get carried away on this subject, can you give me as much information as you have about the Archontiko grave finds? Have you any more photos, especially close-ups? I take it you have visited the excavation yourself, to take 'in situ' photos ? Please tell all !!

I must say, your contributions here on this forum are always extremely interesting and valuable !

[system1988]

Great photos !!

One in particular is of extreme interest, namely the 5 th century warrior grave, which is, I take it, one of the hundreds that have been excavated at Archontiko.

I have been seeking information about these warrior graves for literally years !! I am a scholar of Greek and Roman military history, and one of the threads of it that I am studying is the equipment of Greek and Macedonian warriors.

The warrior in the grave is a 'hoplite', and one can make out that he was buried with at least 2 spears (Spearheads visible lower right) There doesn't appear to be any 'sauroters' ( spike at the end of the hoplite 'dory' or large fighting spear) so these may be a pair of 'longche' ( dual purpose throwing or thrusting spears shorter than the dory), the 'aspis' ( traditional rimmed hoplite shield), an 'Illyrian' style helmet ( almost all the excavated Archontiko helmets are of this type, many with the famous gold masks over the normally open face ).

Full reports have not been published on these finds because the excavations are on-going and will be for years, but newpaper reports refer to remains of 'leather' breastplates being found. Now this is a very important find, for it may settle a long debate about whether the Hoplite's 'thorakes' or 'spolas' was generally made of leather or linen. If what has been found in some graves ( not all probably, for not all hoplites wore body armour in the 5/4 C BC) is the long rotted remains of leather ( often simply called "organic matter"), then the armour in question was almost certainly leather - and that is what I am reasonably sure it was, linen being too rare and costly to make such armour generally, though linen armour, probably quilted was worn by the very rich nobles and Kings in Persia. Alexander himself wore a captured Persian linen corselet......

Anyway, before I get carried away on this subject, can you give me as much information as you have about the Archontiko grave finds? Have you any more photos, especially close-ups? I take it you have visited the excavation yourself, to take 'in situ' photos ? Please tell all !!

I must say, your contributions here on this forum are always extremely interesting and valuable !

Thanks for the comment!

I read your post carefully so let me clarify that my occupation is limited to the borders of Attica region, in which I have taken part in excavations. That leaves Macedonia out of my jurisdiction by default! When I post photos from Macedonian excavations its just because this site revolves around such subjects of interest.

I will try to find all the publications concerning the Necropolis of Arhondikon (I already have some material) and also try to contact the one who was in charge for the excavation itself.This may take some time though. It would also be interesting for one to have access to the excavation journals but this would mean I would have to travel to Macedonia myself. Still the preservation department here in Greece has made huge leaps and maintanins an extremely thorough and high- standards professionalism, thus, if organic material has been found inside the tombs it will have been identified and properly categorized on the spot.

I will notify you in time for this issue.

Best regards

Pauline

[Xenophon]

That is most kind of you !

I look foward to any information at all, and any light you can shed on this important archaeological find !!

So that "Pothosians" can get some idea of the importance of this site, here is a news summary from 2010.....

"Archaeologists Anastasia and Pavlos Chrysostomou, of the 17th Ephorate of Prehistoric and Classical Antiquities, report that another 37 burials dating from the late Iron Age to the early Hellenistic period (circa 650-280 BC) have been exposed during the 2010 season, according to a statement released by the Culture Ministry on September 20, 2010.

Investigation of the 20-hectare cemetery site, located 5 km west of Classical-Hellenistic Pella — the capital of ancient Macedonia from circa 410 BC, has been ongoing since at least the summer of 2000, when the first warrior burials containing gold-decorated armor, weapons, and many other high-status funerary gifts were discovered. To date, with only about 5 percent of the site excavated, a total of 1,004 graves have already been found, including 259 from the Late Iron Age, 475 from the Archaic period, 262 from Classical and early Hellenistic times, and eight of unknown date."

Just imagine, most of these graves contain goods, and because of the period covered, much can be learnt of Macedonian society generally, both rich and poor, including the time of Alexander.

In news reports, prominence has been given to the "treasure" aspects of the finds - many of the graves contain gold artifacts, but of course from an archaeological viewpoint, the gold items are not the most valuable finds.....

The Royal tombs at Vergina are not the only source shedding light on ancient Macedonia.....

[Xenophon]

I have now learnt that your photo of the warrior grave is from another of the known dozen or so Macedonian type cemeterys - namely Aiane, rather than the huge Archontiko.

...To elaborate further on what I am seeking to determine, if you are able to contact the Chrysostomous, the particular information I am trying to determine is in regards to the body armour remains found. Reports consistently state that this was of leather, decorated with gold foil sheet ( and presumably having gold fittings , like those found in the 'Royal Tombs' at Vergina ). Photos of the fittings will hopefully enable identification of the type of body armour, likely to be of the Tube-and-Yoke type ( often incorrectly called 'linothorax' ).

From Attic pottery, this type of body armour seems to have become popular around 550 BC or so, going on to largely replace the previous 'Hoplite' body armour of bronze 'thorakes'. Any information about the dating of the leather and gold body armour would also therefore be of considerable interest.......

Thanking you in anticipation.....and do keep posting photos etc !! It is all interesting!

[system1988]

Sorry for posting the location wrongly but I returned from my vacation on Thursday and I was a little confused at the time.

Could you please tell me the name of the newspaper and the year of the issue in question you saw the publication in?

Best regards

Pauline

[Xenophon]

Now it is my turn to be confused !

When you say "posting the location wrongly", which location are you referring to? Which is correct - Aiane or Archontiko?

As you will have seen, the huge excavation has been going on since the year 2000, and will continue for many years yet. I don't know if any 'interim' proper archaeological reports are available, but my online researches tell me that there is some sort of annual conference or presentation on each season's finds. This often finds its way into a report such as the one quoted in my earlier post in a local newspaper, or in a ministry of culture press release....
A google search for "Archontiko" will throw up the original newspaper reports, placed online and often translated into English ( alas, I don't speak Greek)

e.g. Ministry of Culture press report 10/09/08, reported in: Kathimerini, Ta Nea, Eleftherotypia and To Vima 11/09/08.
( usually the report is written by Iota Myrtsioti - Kathimerini ).

Unfortunately, not much information is available in these press reports, which are usually similar each year, reporting the number of grave excavations and giving a general impression only, with unsurprising emphasis on the 'gold' finds, whereas I am much more interested in the technical information !!

Hence my excitement at your photo from which I was able to glean several important pieces of information about arms and armour of the archaic period. Do you have more like this? Or close-ups?

I hope I live long enough to see what is going to be a massive final report !! That is somewhat unlikely given that in a dozen years, only 5 % of the necroplis has been excavated - an indication of just what a massive project this is! And what a picture it is going to reveal about ancient Greece, with burials dating from the 7 C BC to 280 BC, most with grave goods.

Thank you once again for any light you can shed on this archaeological wonder

[system1988]

Now it is my turn to be confused !

When you say "posting the location wrongly", which location are you referring to? Which is correct - Aiane or Archontiko?

As you will have seen, the huge excavation has been going on since the year 2000, and will continue for many years yet. I don't know if any 'interim' proper archaeological reports are available, but my online researches tell me that there is some sort of annual conference or presentation on each season's finds. This often finds its way into a report such as the one quoted in my earlier post in a local newspaper, or in a ministry of culture press release....
A google search for "Archontiko" will throw up the original newspaper reports, placed online and often translated into English ( alas, I don't speak Greek)

e.g. Ministry of Culture press report 10/09/08, reported in: Kathimerini, Ta Nea, Eleftherotypia and To Vima 11/09/08.
( usually the report is written by Iota Myrtsioti - Kathimerini ).

Unfortunately, not much information is available in these press reports, which are usually similar each year, reporting the number of grave excavations and giving a general impression only, with unsurprising emphasis on the 'gold' finds, whereas I am much more interested in the technical information !!

Hence my excitement at your photo from which I was able to glean several important pieces of information about arms and armour of the archaic period. Do you have more like this? Or close-ups?

I hope I live long enough to see what is going to be a massive final report !! That is somewhat unlikely given that in a dozen years, only 5 % of the necroplis has been excavated - an indication of just what a massive project this is! And what a picture it is going to reveal about ancient Greece, with burials dating from the 7 C BC to 280 BC, most with grave goods.

Thank you once again for any light you can shed on this archaeological wonder

The tomb photo that I posted is from the Arhondikon (it means luxurious house) excavation, just like the two photos I posted here:

http://s1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg6 ... %20Pellas/

In any case, in my last post I only wrote "Macedonian tomb. The confusion came from the fact that I sent by letter to a fellow member from pothos.org some material both from Aeanis and Arhondikon. And so I confused the pho0tos for which I kept no copies.

Since you waited for than many a decade, just wait a bit longer in order to give me some time to proccess the material.

From what I read, already since 1980, part of the cemetary had been discovered and the site continues to be searched from 2000 and forth.

Also, you are right. As far as the "for the general public" illustrations are concerned, the gold is the main attraction.

Best regards

[Xenophon]

System1988 wrote:-

Since you waited for than many a decade, just wait a bit longer in order to give me some time to proccess the material.

Oh indeed.....I am more than content to be patient, there is no great rush ! Just whenever it is convenient for you....I am more than grateful for any snippets of information that can be gleaned. I greatly enjoyed the additional photos too

Thank you !

[system1988]

I have now learnt that your photo of the warrior grave is from another of the known dozen or so Macedonian type cemeterys - namely Aiane, rather than the huge Archontiko.

...To elaborate further on what I am seeking to determine, if you are able to contact the Chrysostomous, the particular information I am trying to determine is in regards to the body armour remains found. Reports consistently state that this was of leather, decorated with gold foil sheet ( and presumably having gold fittings , like those found in the 'Royal Tombs' at Vergina ). Photos of the fittings will hopefully enable identification of the type of body armour, likely to be of the Tube-and-Yoke type ( often incorrectly called 'linothorax' ).

From Attic pottery, this type of body armour seems to have become popular around 550 BC or so, going on to largely replace the previous 'Hoplite' body armour of bronze 'thorakes'. Any information about the dating of the leather and gold body armour would also therefore be of considerable interest.......

Thanking you in anticipation.....and do keep posting photos etc !! It is all interesting!

I have some info and photos from the Arhontikon. The truth is that I fell into the trap of the charm of gold. In order for you not to get confused, lets clear out the fact that four cemeteries have been discovered in the area of Arhontiko.

A) Southern cemetery--> Jewels and weapons from the Iron age
B) Southwestern cemetery--> The famous circular funerary heroon of Arhontiko and the graves which date back to the 4th and 3rd BC
C) Eastern cemetery--> Graves of Archaic period and early Hellenistic Age
D) Western cemetery--> The most important one. By 2006 720 graves had been excavated in light of repeated grave robberies.

I believe that one of the most interesting burials is the one found in the western cemetery and of which I have posted here some photos:

http://s1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg6 ... n%20Tombs/

The warrior of the tomb 194 died young under the age of 30. He was burried inside a wooden coffin. His bronze helmet was decorated with golden inscribed ribbons around the face area of the helmet. Diagonally on his chest lay a iron sword with golden decoration on its handle. Next to his right hand lay a second iron sword, a knife as well as two spear heads which were resting on his shoulder and right leg. On his belly lay a iron fibula and on his chest a piece of gold was found with a relief on it. More smaller gold pieces with flaural and geometric decoration were found around it which means that they must have been decoration parts sawn on the leather part of his chest armor . On his left hand he wore a golden ring and near him a golden glove with triangular endings. His clothes were also decorated with golden ribbons while his shoes had two (for each) golden roses.

It goes without saying that I have taken out too much info in order to get to what you are interested in. This is why the whole text seems crude. Th research continues when possible...

[Xenophon]

Once again my thanks !!

I was aware that there was more than one actual cemetary at Archontiko, but it is good to have confirmation of details.
I believe the famous mid 3 rd century BC (probably from the reign of Antigonus Gonatos ) 'heroon' was actually unfinished in antiquity ?

It is sad to note that the graves are the subject of robbery. Several museums around the world have Illyrian helmets with gold masks which are often stated to be 'provenance unknown' or a vague 'from northern Greece'.....not hard to guess, then, that these are likely to have been robbed from Archontiko or a similar site before finding their way onto the market.....

I very much enjoyed the photos. I note that some of the black and white ones are captioned, and seem to have come from a book. Does that mean that some of the work at Archontiko has been published ?

[Paralus]

Fascinating stuff. More! More!

[system1988]

More:

Concerning the Heroon, it is dated back to the Antigonos Gonatas era (276-279 BC). It is unique to Greece because of its size and its morphology.
Marble shields were decorating the exterior. One can still spot the one which is stilll there. Similar marble decorative shields were also found in Veroia in a large tomb of Hellensitic times. For unknown reasons the monument remained unfinished. (the info is from a 5 paged research which I do not have the time to translate).

As far as the Arhondikon graves go: I talked to the archaeologist in charge of the excavation who told me that no organinc material was saved, indicating the definite existense of a leather armor. It is strongly hypothesized however that the warriors who were burried with all their military equipment and on their bodies golden armor parts were found, these pieces of gold had to be placed on a lighter armor such as a leather one. It is really hard to believe that they were burried with only light clothing while at the same time their weapons surrounded them. This is exactly the case of the warrior grave no. 194 I sent to you all. Take a good look at the photo of the golden foil/plates. The excavator based his hypothesis on those plates (upper part of the photo the big one). The other ones with the triangular endings belong to the glove worn by the warrior. It is also hypothesized that the ancient Macedoninans wore some kind of bronze gloves during the battle in order to protect themselves.

Now, for the publishings: The Arhondikon excavation can be found in the work "The archaeological work in Macedonia and Thrace", where english translations exist. Moreover , by going to:

http://www.latsis-foundation.org/megazi ... reloader=1 ----- pages 299 and 305 for the graves ------

John Latsis is a famous Greek shipowner (I think one of the 50 richest people in the world) who has founded a cultural institution. He has also published books of mostly all the Greek Museums (a good chance to see them all since they are exquisite photos in there). The excavator ensured me for the continuation of these publishings.