The IP Man

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bessusww
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The IP Man

Post by bessusww »

Hi I just watched a movie called the IP Man...a chinese movie based on a Early Twentieth Century Kung Fu Teacher of Bruce Lee...Whats that to do with Alexander I hear you all ask?

Well for me its relative in the way peoples argue fight amongst them selves..Become over run bay invaders or Colonial powers.

We had the Chinses Kung Fu Schools continually trying out each other for top dog..then they got over run by the Japanese in world war two then the British Via Hong kong...Both became the agressive bullies and monsters..The British had a Boxing brute Champion who got beat by the Kung Fu master...Over look maybe but really its all relevent to Alexander.Persia,Roman,Mongul,British etc all very much the same big bullies who came and went in prossesion...For me its where is the line drawn.

All these Empires history would be called great Empires Created by Great Men great Armies etc.What makes good Empire or a good conquest??? If the Germans hadnt resorted to the Holocaust would history look at its Empire as we maybe do Alexanders or the Roman Empire?

Finally and sorry for drifting off Alexander but they are all related...Recently we had the Serbian General been arrested....I think its fair to say every commander in history would be up before the Haig on War crimes. Alexander included...But I think we maybe have to accept war in all its faces its brutal and as a rule people die in hundreds of thousands for reasons not really in there control.

The IP Man reminded me of the City state rivalry that went on in Ancient Greece...Until of Coarse the Macedonians Trod on them Followed by the Romans et,,,A continious road of a much ness.

Finally the Conclusion of the movie and the British Boxer nationalism ...Union Jacks every where..As an Alexander reader I looked at those Union Jacks and realissed that Emblem has accompanied a lot of worldwide bullying and killing rather more and over a lot longer period than..The Macedonian Star and Even the German Swastika
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spitamenes
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Re: The IP Man

Post by spitamenes »

bessusww wrote: If the Germans hadnt resorted to the Holocaust would history look at its Empire as we maybe do Alexanders or the Roman Empire?
History is always written by the victors my friend. Our grade school American history books paint a very pretty picture of how our country came to be. (We sat at a big table and ate turkey and corn on the cob with the natives! ...and what small pox?).
And I like your threads Bessusww, no matter how thin the connection line is with Alexander! :D

I'm gonna start a thread about my trip to the beach and its relevance because Gaugamela was fought in the sand. 8)
Alexias
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Re: The IP Man

Post by Alexias »

"...And the rubber button?"
bessusww
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Re: The IP Man

Post by bessusww »

Spitamenese...A grain of Sand?

We all give Great credence to Alexanders military and personal achievements,,,On the front of it pretty impressive...I've always thought leaders like Philip and Alexander were total hegemon and supreme commander..But in reality were they or were they all propped up by corporate cash...Were Alexander and Philip there own bankers?

The more I learn of big buiseness and expansion has it always been a money exercize or were Alexander and Philip as said Absolute power...The only Leader of such I can think had absolute power was the Mongul Khan.

Caesars were the hanging pegs for senates and the Roman senates who were after all very wealthy aristocratic Romans.
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spitamenes
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Re: The IP Man

Post by spitamenes »

Bessusww,
Do you think Hitler had anything close to what Khan had when it comes to absolute power? Or was the nazi war machine too complex to make the comparison?
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spitamenes
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Re: The IP Man

Post by spitamenes »

And didn't Alexander sell all or almost all of his properties before embarking on the persian campaign? I thought he basically cleaned out most of his assets to fund what was ahead. And even then, that could only get him so far, to the point of him having to win battles just to get money to pay his troops. Until he got into Persian gold, it might have been a (relatively) rough time monetarily.
bessusww
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Re: The IP Man

Post by bessusww »

Agreed it is said Alexander was broke...but its fare to say he must have had some kind of financial backing...banking on huge returns if or when Alexander did get the Persian Money...Military Conquests id say always have financial backing some where hopping on on interest and capital gains
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spitamenes
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Re: The IP Man

Post by spitamenes »

What about towards the end of Alexanders life? Do you think Khan had more power in the height of his career than Alexander in his?
bessusww
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Re: The IP Man

Post by bessusww »

Yes i do spitamenese...i think because khans commanders were disciplined and ruled heavily by khan...i believe none would have the nerve to back chat him like..Philotas,Parmenio and otherr disgruntled commanders did.

Khans Generald feared and respected him...I dont think Alexanders did...They were mostly in for what they could get and belly ached quite a lot...khan would have executed philotas far sooner than alexander did...he would not have allowed Demosthenese to mouth off and stirr trouble.

Im one who does believe Alexanders close companions poisoned him and on the other hand I think the Mongol leaders wouldnt dare think of it let alone trying it. id say in some instances alexander showed himself too lenient
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spitamenes
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Re: The IP Man

Post by spitamenes »

Bessusww,
I completely agree with your statement about Demothenes, and Philotas for that matter. But I also think that even though Alexanders men were a bit more relaxed with they're king than Khans were with him, they were so because Alexander chose to allow this. He probably gave them the freedom to speak they're mind(to an extent) because that's what they were used to, from the days of Philip. A "first among equals" kind of society. Khan was a vicious individual, and for good reason. He felt he needed to be this way while in his position. I do not know much about him so I do not wish to make any further statements about his reign. I just think they were two very different Leaders.

Also Bessusww, are you as familiar with Khan as you are with Alexander?
All the best,
Spitamenes
bessusww
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Re: The IP Man

Post by bessusww »

Not Really Spitamenese...Ive just read the basics with the Khan...I mean we cant really study all subjects with depth as we probably have with Alexander...I just think its a case of one mans hero...I would say maybe the east has more of a leaning towards Ghengis Khan than a western Commander.

However I am familiar with a lot of the Khans Terror tactics...So much was his rain based on terror I belive most of his enemies were beaten before they took to the field...Apparently Peking stank of blood and rooting human flesh for 6 months after his conquest. Based on this I feel his command was total and complete...Khans Motto was never to leave enemies alive in his rear as he understood one day they would rise.

I do believe Alexander was well able to use terror and threats but at the same time carried enough charm or Charisma for it to be taken moderately.

Demosthenese allowed to live ? I have no idea...Harpalus getting away with theft twice? Philotas got away with it for so long,,,And conveniently used to get rid of Parmenio.

Alexander left good harsh messages to those who rose against him in war.Tyre,Thebes and the Eastern Massacres...I just felt he let his wining generals get away with too much...Its representative with the so called executions and purges Alexander was accused of when he returned to Babylon...I'm sure he did execute these people and dont put it down to meglamanic insanity. I would wager they were mostly acting exactly as Harpalus had done...Carrying on like little kings as thge real king was away...Probably the lot of them hoping Alexander did die and never came back.

For these self same reasons I belive the generals were all self serving and didnt want Alexander spoiling there ways of life as he was all about changing things when he got back...Case point for start Antipater was going to be replaced we know that as a Fact.

If Antipater,,,Why Not the rest... For the said reasond I will forever believe Alexander was killed and for me if he was more like Ghengis Khan they would not have dared nor would they have behaved in GHengis Khans absence as they did when Alexander was away in the east.

All the best and sorry for wittering on...On the other point and Ghengis Khan defeating Enemies before the battles with fear...For me A great Roman Commander Caesar and Alexander would not have had such fear and maybe The Khan Would have problems...But Alexanders Army was never big enough to hold the hundreds of thousands of natural great horsemen as the Mongols...His strategies and battle formations would have to be very good
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spitamenes
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Re: The IP Man

Post by spitamenes »

No apologies necessary, Bessusww, for the wittering on. I always find your posts most interesting. And I think more often than not, the satraps and general leaders put in charge of the different areas by Alexander all wanted him, and most likely expectedhim, not to return. Because many had to have thought of him as wreckless and that he couldn'tpossibly live much longer campaigning the way he did. Many seemed to even gamble on the idea of him not returning. Imagine the wide eyes of the satraps after hearing Alexander conquered yet another far off land and is himself, quickly approaching they're doorstep. Good lord that would be horrifying. especially for the satraps playing despot while he was away.
All the best,
Spitamenes
bessusww
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Re: The IP Man

Post by bessusww »

Spitamenese

Thanks for the comments...As you say I'm sure the satraps were fearful and its fare to say with good reason,,,Cyrus tomb been a prime example...Scholars and writer are easy to say Alexander went mad and returned to Babylon and the executions.

I sometimes get annoyed with atrocites as its said...Tyre has been highlighted as a massacre and an atrocity...Its fare to say without Alexander any army breaking through after months of irritation...I recall reading the Tyrians made quite a nasty initial impression by Crucifying Alexanders envoys on the walls....Its a little like once again Ghengis Khan sent messengers to the Shah of Persia with his terms...The Persians didnt do themselves any favours by sending Genghis Khans messengers heads back.

I like to look at overall situations etc before Call Alexanders sacking of Tyre as an atrocity...Its fair to say war as a whole is an atrocity and an evil...The Tyrians chose to hoild out thinking they were safe...They defied caused suffering to hardened |Macedonian soldiers...What did they expect once the Macedonians got in?? A cup of tea.

If anyone was responsible then it lies equally with those who decided to try defy Alexander...They were offered peaceful terms all be it at the price to be subsrvant...But the Tyrians were already subservant to the Persians.

Thebes was wund up like a clock by Demosthenese...That Alexander was dead...These nasty little mouth pieces soon as Alexander was at the Gates Demosthenese and his cronies were off...
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