Split thread - How/why/when did War lose its lustre?

[Fiona]

First off, welcome Fiona! I hope you like it here. I know that I've missed the forum during the recent downtime. It's great to be back though.

I found your post very interesting. I agree that there will always be young people who have never tasted war and thirst for it. It's odd, though, isn't it? After all those stories and movies about the horrors of war, there are always those who still want to go out. Is it part of human nature to fight? What causes so many brave men and women to risk their lives? I suppose it could be a sense of responsibility. Maybe some feel it their duty to go out into war. Back in Alexander's time, war was for glory and honor. Is it the same now? Before, didn't all young men aspire to go to war? Now, most people have found other pursuits in business and art. People pursue high careers and boast about their positions. Has the competitive world of carrers taken the place of war?

Thanks, Derek, it's good to be here. Feeling a bit like a child let loose in a toy shop at the moment, so many good things to look at.
It's very odd how war retains its appeal. In a way, it's easier to understand in the ancient world, because of the chance it gave to see other places, get rich, etc. Yet now, when those things are easily achieved by other means, young men and women still join armies, even in countries where it's a purely voluntary thing. As you say, there are plenty of other ways now for them to win fame and reknown. So fewer aspire to go to war, but some still do. I guess the whole idea of putting on a uniform, of belonging, still has its appeal, but I think maybe that deep down, they feel that what they do might make a difference. That's one thing that hasn't changed, I think.
Fiona

[Fiona]

I beg your pardon, Vergina Sun, wrong name!

Fiona

[Fiona]

Something that was quite appropriate then and even more so in 338 when Athens, yet again indulging in the "Men of Marathon" mirage, called up the lists and sent to war men who'd largely no experience or - at most - little experience of what was to come.

Philip played them for the inexperienced "newbies" they wer. Strarocles and all.

It's always sad to see elder statesmen exploiting the enthusiasm of the young and/or inexperienced. Though in the case of Stratocles, I don't suppose he felt he had much option, and at least he went to battle himself.
But as you say, no match for Philip.

Fiona

[Vergina Sun]

Thanks, Derek, it's good to be here. Feeling a bit like a child let loose in a toy shop at the moment, so many good things to look at.
It's very odd how war retains its appeal. In a way, it's easier to understand in the ancient world, because of the chance it gave to see other places, get rich, etc. Yet now, when those things are easily achieved by other means, young men and women still join armies, even in countries where it's a purely voluntary thing. As you say, there are plenty of other ways now for them to win fame and reknown. So fewer aspire to go to war, but some still do. I guess the whole idea of putting on a uniform, of belonging, still has its appeal, but I think maybe that deep down, they feel that what they do might make a difference. That's one thing that hasn't changed, I think.
Fiona

The appeal of saying you're a soldier might not have changed, but nowadays, people tend to look at soldeirs with pity. In Alexander's time, it was absolute glory to be a soldier. Sparta was glorious during its golden age. Do you think the same holds true now? Being a soldier is a very respectable occupation. I look up to those who put their life on the line for their country. I, personally, would never want to be in the army, however (but that's just me). There needs to be some people who want to join the army. Without one, a country is in a bit of trouble. Should an army be a country's main focus, though?

Oh, and don't mind using the wrong name. It is an honor to be confused for someone so brilliant.

[Fiona]

The appeal of saying you're a soldier might not have changed, but nowadays, people tend to look at soldeirs with pity. In Alexander's time, it was absolute glory to be a soldier. Sparta was glorious during its golden age. Do you think the same holds true now? Being a soldier is a very respectable occupation. I look up to those who put their life on the line for their country. I, personally, would never want to be in the army, however (but that's just me). There needs to be some people who want to join the army. Without one, a country is in a bit of trouble. Should an army be a country's main focus, though?

Oh, and don't mind using the wrong name. It is an honor to be confused for someone so brilliant.

You're very kind! It puzzles me why there's this lack of respect, this pity, for soldiers these days. It's almost as if people are blaming the soldiers - and other forces - for unpopular military actions their governments have decided upon. It's worse in some places than others, I think. In the UK, I think the tide is turning, just a little - the press is beginning to ask why we can't be more like USA and support our troops - without necessarily approving of the politics - but just be more appreciative of their courage and their efforts. Not all sections of the press - some will always sneer, I guess. It makes me sad. And it makes me very angry when government penny-piching means our troops don't have all the resources they need. I don't think exactly that an army should be a country's main focus - highly-militarised societies never look much fun - but I would like to see, in my own country, our government remembering that defence is one of the reasons we have a government in the first place.
I don't think we'll ever get rid of war completely. Only an external threat could do that, so until aliens invade, we're stuck with it. That being the case, I'm glad there are still people who are brave enough to do the job.
I can understand pacifists, I can understand people looking back at the carnage of the Twentieth century, and saying, "No more!"
What I can't understand, though, is why, when people do that, they get sneered at too, and called things like 'draft dodgers'.
So what I'm trying to say is that I admire the soldiers, and I admire the ones who refuse to be soldiers. It's the sneerers that get my goat!

Fiona

[Vergina Sun]

You're very kind! It puzzles me why there's this lack of respect, this pity, for soldiers these days. It's almost as if people are blaming the soldiers - and other forces - for unpopular military actions their governments have decided upon. It's worse in some places than others, I think. In the UK, I think the tide is turning, just a little - the press is beginning to ask why we can't be more like USA and support our troops - without necessarily approving of the politics - but just be more appreciative of their courage and their efforts. Not all sections of the press - some will always sneer, I guess. It makes me sad. And it makes me very angry when government penny-piching means our troops don't have all the resources they need. I don't think exactly that an army should be a country's main focus - highly-militarised societies never look much fun - but I would like to see, in my own country, our government remembering that defence is one of the reasons we have a government in the first place.
I don't think we'll ever get rid of war completely. Only an external threat could do that, so until aliens invade, we're stuck with it. That being the case, I'm glad there are still people who are brave enough to do the job.
I can understand pacifists, I can understand people looking back at the carnage of the Twentieth century, and saying, "No more!"
What I can't understand, though, is why, when people do that, they get sneered at too, and called things like 'draft dodgers'.
So what I'm trying to say is that I admire the soldiers, and I admire the ones who refuse to be soldiers. It's the sneerers that get my goat!

Fiona

Aw shucks. You're very kind too.
I believe that people have always searched for other people to blame. It makes life a lot easier if you can blame someone else. Sometimes one person isn't enough, I guess. Unfortunately people like to blame whole groups at the same time. Soldiers deserve respect. In a sense, they have the courage to do things that we don't want to do. As I mentioned earlier, I would never fare well in a war - I'm weak in that way. I don't know if all of America supports its troops, but I know that I will never blame troops for wars. Some people are so unconsiderate, though.

[Semiramis]

Semari

I couldnt agree more that people are less suseptable. Infact sadly I think its more and in a tragic way.

[...]

Glossy mags. Whos dating who. Shes wearing this hes done that.

Hi Kenny,

I had totally missed this post of yours. Must've gone up just before the forum went down. I think we're pretty much in total agreement in the role of mass media when it comes to war. If television and newspapers can't sell it to you, they can still distract you with celebrity gossip or whatnot. Are we really less susceptible to this "training" than a 10 year old at the Spartan agoge?